RugerForum.com

This is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.
It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:31 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: standards
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:47 pm 
Offline
Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2207
Location: greensboro, nc
I recently learned the hard way that the trade of gunsmithing has no standards to speak of. That is to say, there's no degree of expertise you have to reach to hang out a shingle. I wish I was wrong but I came across this tonight: "... there is no federal certifying or licensing requirement concerning the skill level of someone purporting to be a gunsmith."

This came up when an actual gunsmith turned a gun of mine into a hand grenade. I won't go into any details but trust me when I say he's a danger to the public and there's no way I know of that he can be held to account. This is incredible to me and I wonder how it ever came to be like that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:09 pm 
Offline
Ruger Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 33540
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
I have known that for years. I have refused to call myself a gunsmith for that very reason as I ONLY tinker. I do NOT do major work on anybody's gun. I will install a scope, replace a stock, etc all in the "easy" jobs where NO serious work is to be done on the action or chambers.
I too have seen a few butcher jobs and knew someone got burned.

_________________
Shoot straight and safe!

" A fine is a tax for doing wrong,
and a tax is a fine for doing
right! "
NRA Instructor
USPSA shooter
SASS shooter (Outlaw Joe Wales)
NRA Women On Target Instructor
NC Hunter Safety Instructor
Nuisance Wildlife Control
Scuba Instructor
Eagle Scout, BSA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:58 am 
Offline
Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2095
Location: Daegu, Korea
Let's not be too quick to call for outside regulation! The last thing we need is some form of government getting involved in yet another aspect of our hobby!

Just think of some of the restrictions they could arbitrarily apply to anyone who wanted or already had a 'gunsmith license.' 'Oh, you're not zoned properly.' 'You're not authorized to perform that type of repair.' Or, how about 'You can change barrels, but you'll have to test-fire the gun and enroll the recovered bullets/cartridge casings in our ballistic fingerprinting database.'

_________________
"Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a congressman can." - Mark Twain, What is Man? and Other Essays, 1917 ed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:37 am 
Offline
Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2207
Location: greensboro, nc
Enigma wrote:
Let's not be too quick to call for outside regulation! The last thing we need is some form of government getting involved in yet another aspect of our hobby!

Just think of some of the restrictions they could arbitrarily apply to anyone who wanted or already had a 'gunsmith license.' 'Oh, you're not zoned properly.' 'You're not authorized to perform that type of repair.' Or, how about 'You can change barrels, but you'll have to test-fire the gun and enroll the recovered bullets/cartridge casings in our ballistic fingerprinting database.'


This guy is going to get someone hurt or killed and the reason he can't be stopped is because there are no regulations. I have to deal with them in my trade as does most every other trade, and not all of those trades are nearly as dangerous as gunsmithing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:47 pm 
Offline
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 18358
Location: Ohio , U.S.A.
You are right, ,sad to say , that is about the thing with ANY form or service or repair...thats why there is the BBB and the 'AG' of every state in the Union......liability insurance costs a "bundle", and if they don''t have it, all the better to "stay away from that kind of person..."lots of gun plumbers out , tinkerers, hobbyists and the like but I know only a FEW "true" gunsmiths......I have owned 3 gun shops ,trained to work on and service firearms at a number of gun makers over the years, but would NOT consider myself a "gunsmith", thats a tall order....have worked with a couple of them over the years, but they are dead and gone now, only one remains and Walt is 'retired' himself, by and large,still hangs on a few days a week.....oh, I can buff and polish, and prep them with the "best", and do much of it by hand, and by eye, but that does NOT make one a "gunsmith" .............
closest we have seen any organizing of "custom " gunsmiths, was years ago, when they formed the 'American Pistolsmiths Guild', we knew many of them "Old timers" ?? (ha ha) when they did that, but that still does NOT cover any and all the "bubbas" ( backyard gun plumbers..) or members of "Schwak Industires" and their renowned "schwak jobs" those are the ones you can spot as being "reblued" from across the room, and usually "FUBAR"...........you gotta check around, get references, and all of that.

Good luck.....................

_________________
Dan

NRA Benefactor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:52 pm 
Offline
Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2207
Location: greensboro, nc
Yep. The scary thing is that this guy is apparently an honest-to-god gunsmith with a nice website and everything. And his state AG wasn't interested in doing anything about it. I wonder if the NRA is the reason there's no oversight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:39 pm 
Online
Hawkeye
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:01 am
Posts: 14837
Location: So. Florida
I would love to hear the story. :mrgreen:

...Jimbo

_________________
Zombies - Time Of The Season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d48ALU ... d48ALUVA6Y


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:37 am 
Offline
Hunter

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 3427
Location: Either Texas or Idaho
There are the American Pistolsmiths Guild and the American Custom Gunmakers Guild that try and do to ensure competency.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:08 am 
Offline
Buckeye
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:47 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: NW Kansas
The only thing certification does is prove some one knows how to take a test. Most people study to pass the certification, afterwords they may never apply what they learned.

By the way, auto mechanics do not have to be certified. And if you believe it is not as dangerous as a gunsmith, keep in mind of all the things you rely on your vehicle to do at 80 mph, or in a panic stop, maybe even coming down that mountain pass.

_________________
Over the Mountains Of the Moon, Down the Valley of the Shadow, Ride, boldly ride if you seek for El Dorado!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:09 am 
Offline
Hawkeye
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:34 pm
Posts: 7174
Location: Georgia
Is this the gun that was converted to 44mag instead of 44 Special?

_________________
Let's just sit here awhile and see what happens...
"Life happens now, and it can be lost in yesterday, or misspent waiting for tomorrow."
NRA Benefactor
www.GeorgiaCarry.org


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:34 pm 
Offline
Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2207
Location: greensboro, nc
I don't want to go into details, I'm just wondering how such a potentially dangerous trade can be so wide open. I'm going to guess the main reason is that the NRA is probably opposed to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:45 am 
Offline
Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2207
Location: greensboro, nc
What would you guys do if you were in my shoes and someone made a mess of your gun and he won't refund your money or fix anything and then you found out there's nothing you can do about it because he's in another state? Would you post his name everywhere? He's going to get someone hurt eventually but there's also a good chance you'll get flamed for doing it. You know how forums are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:45 am 
Offline
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 18358
Location: Ohio , U.S.A.
well a couple of things, first , I sincerely doubt the NRA has ANYTHING to do with this situation, you cited this twice now and the answer is as said before, they are out there, good and bad, pros and bums.....you got took, you feel, and your bottom line is to seek a remedy, (sue) that's what you are supposed to do....but be careful of slamming the guy , slander and such is a criminal act and if he has a BETTER lawyer than YOU< the tables can be turned, so please be careful on just "how" you want to vent, be selective. There are two sides to every story and as Paul Harvey said, we will wait to hear the "rest of the story....." me, I'd call a lawyer, just to find out what your options REALLY are, no just guessing or making opinions.......

_________________
Dan

NRA Benefactor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:01 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 4248
Location: Cape Cod, MA, USA
rugerguy wrote:
well a couple of things, first , I sincerely doubt the NRA has ANYTHING to do with this situation, you cited this twice now and the answer is as said before, they are out there, good and bad, pros and bums.....you got took, you feel, and your bottom line is to seek a remedy, (sue) that's what you are supposed to do....but be careful of slamming the guy , slander and such is a criminal act and if he has a BETTER lawyer than YOU< the tables can be turned, so please be careful on just "how" you want to vent, be selective. There are two sides to every story and as Paul Harvey said, we will wait to hear the "rest of the story....." me, I'd call a lawyer, just to find out what your options REALLY are, no just guessing or making opinions.......

Excellent advice. And don't potentially compromise any case you have by talking about the facts before they're set out in a legal manner. As much as I'd like to hear the details, if you go "airing your dirty laundry" and the other side in a litigation finds out about it, it doesn't leave you in a good position.

IMO, of course, and I'm not a lawyer.

-- Sam

_________________
I hear banjos. Paddle faster!
Sarchasm - (n.) The gulf that exists between the creator of subtle witticisms and those who don't get them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:35 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 5769
Location: Chattanooga, TN
On the other end of the spectrum...the prettiest guns I have ever seen were built by people that were not gunsmiths.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group