Security six help !!!

Ok, long story, fairly short, lol I recently traded into a Security Six from a local gunshop/gunsmith. I loaded it up yesterday with some 38's when I got it home and was going to take it out and try her out.

I noticed theat when loaded, you can tilt the barrel up and the cartridges slide back against the recoil shield, quiet abit, easily the width of a dime to almost a penny between the rim of the case and the body of the cartridge.

The fired cases are bulging some ,not terrible, but enough so that I cant slide a fired case into the cylinder of my Blackhawk. Although the fired cases easily drop out of the Security six with no binding.

I took it to another local gunsmith to have a look at and he is under the impression I need to have a new cylinder fitted

I'm not sure what to do, this is my first and only DA, my other pistols are Ruger Sa's and none allow the cartridges to slide back against the recoil shield like the Security six does.

Anybody got any opinions? please? lol

May sound funny but are yoy sure these are 38 spc. not colt or S&W? is the cyl to shield gap penny dime quarter? mike normal for cartridge to touch shield if gun is clean can you mike the cyl with a micrometer? or case lenth guage? Mike.

The cartridges are 38 spc. Unfortunately I dont have a micrometer

When the gun is tilted up, the cartridges slide back against the recoil shield. Not sure how to explain it. the chambers are loose and the cartridges rattle back and forth in the cylinder, sliding against the recoil shield, The gap is the width of the cartridge exposed, with the head of the cartridge resting on the shield.

I thought at first the cylinder may have been milled to accept moon clips, but not sure

walkin try to measure the gap between cyl and shield without ammo with something i can relate to IE nickl quarter etc.mike

Ok, with the gun unlaoded and cocked, I can easily slide a 50 cent peice into the gap between the cylinder and recoil shield.

I Just tried sliding a penny and a dime in side by side and they fit snugly with no play.

I need a micrometer, lol

OK aquarter should fit loosly at the bottom of the cyl but get tight rolling it to the top(toward the top strap it is like this on my unfired and used quite a bit sec six's if yours does the same your good on that.inform me. I got othere ideas. between us and the rest of the gang we can figure it out.Mike

Ok, I can get a quarter and a dime side by side in mine at the bottom, and it tightens as it rolls up, till only the quarter fits loosely at the top. So sounds like my gap is wider than the ones on yours. Should I be concerned?

Thanks for all the help !!!!

It is POSSIBLE that someone modified that gun to use moon clips,,,???? I know of a few folks locally who have had it done for competition guns. Just another possibility.
Now, I just went & got a dime, a penny, and a quarter and my Security-Six. I miked them each as follows;
Penny; .056
Dime; .049
Quarter; .063
45 ACP moon clip; .040
Case head of 38 spl; .049
Gap between my cylinder & frame; .063
So it appears that my SS has a gap difference between the case head & the cylinder of .014 approximately.

Now, I can get a dime in between my frame & cylinder, but nothing else. If you can get a quarter & a dime together for a total of .113 approximately,, and a case head is .049 and a moon clip is .040 for a total of .089,,, it would appear it's VERY possible someone has milled off part of the cylinder for moonclip shooting.
Just what I could think of,,,!

any chance of taking it back? depending on what you paid there are a lot of sec six's out there if you picked it up really cheap you can buy a cyl from ruger and if your gunsmith is decent he should be able to pick it up for you and install it for the retail price you would pay.Mike whoa dude just reread your original post go back to the gundealer/smith you got it from he'll hook you up right if he's worth a rats ah ah butt.MIke

Tts possible I suppose, its a 159 series so it was made in '82.

Is it safe to shoot this way? Or should I look at having the cylinder replaced?

Everything else is nice and tight on it, BC gap looks good. The six rounds I fired showed no signs of shaving. Cylinder holes arent tight at all,rounds drop out with out using the ejector. The fired cases have a very slight bulge about midway down the case where they have fire formed to the chamber.

The only other problem I have found with it is the cylinder doesnt always want to latch, button seems a little sticky.

Is it possible that someone shimmed the cylinder forward to close up the BC gap, instead of setting the barrel back?

Mike, I traded for it from the gunshop guy/gunsmith. I took it back the other day and asked him to look at it, and was told that it was fine, nothing wrong with it He had carried it and it was a great shooter, yada yada ....basicly I got took, apparently

In the mean time I have another gunsmith looking for a replacement cylinder for it if needed. This guy seems to know a little more about them than the other fella. He knew the guy I got it off of and said he was pretty squirrley and not much of a smith, lol

Cash wise I only have a couple hundred in it, so if I have to replace the cylinder I wont be out to much. Guy quoted me 45 for labor and the cost of a new cylinder to replace it. Even with repalcing the cylinder I'm right a 350 in it, which sems to be about the going price for these right now.

Live and learn I guess

On the bright side, judging by the six shots I have been able to fire from it, even with all its problems, its going to be one hell of a shooter, lol

It would be a wise thing to order a set of head space gauges and check the headspace is withing specifications. Otherwise you might end up with a ruptured case.

Just looked in my copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's The Ruger Double Action Revolvers - A Shop Manual Vol. I.

The headspace, that is the space between the recoil surface in the frame (the area around the firing pin hole) and the rear of the cylinder, should be 0.060"-0.066".

The average case rim thickness is 0.054" which means there is about 0.006"-0.012" of space between the recoil surface and the rear of the case lined up for firing.

if the other smith is going to do the work he will have the guages also and this could be important call ruger tomorrow and ask them about it possible you might actually get it done for less and with ruger you never know they might (slim) consider it warrenty work.Phone #603 865 2442 this way they can turn back a perfect shooter and who knows they might even pay the shipping and you would know it's right.they have allways done right by me and every body else I know that has had problems. let me know what happens. mike

Just out of curiousity, what does one of your guys cylinders measure, mines right at 1 and 9/16the's oal, give or take a hair.

I'll do that Mike, I was just hoping this other guy would come up with a cylinder and save me shipping and a long waiting period.

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated !!!

call ruger and I don't think i have to say don't shoot it (and God in Heaven no 357) like i said think you know this mine is exactly 1.5000 with a case lenth guage which reminds me instead of a calipers buy a case lenth guage one more tool that will serve more purposes.Mike

Walkindude":3i8ol7dm said:

give or take a hair.

Click to expand...

That "hair" might be the difference between a safe and an unsafe headspace.

The length of the cylinder does not tell you what the headspace is.

The minimum headspace comes from the cylinder ratchet touching the ratchet bearing surface on the frame.

The maximum headspace comes from the cylinder bearing surface touching the end of the crane barrel.

There is no practical way to measure the relationship of the rear of the cylinder and the bearing surface for the crane inside the cylinder. And even if you could measure it, there is no reference information against which to check that measurement.

The only way to make sure is to install the cylinder and measure the headspace using headspace gauges or in a pinch using feeler gauges or an empty case and feeler gauges.

walker belay my last statement I thought you were talking width as in a bulged cyl the lenth is 1.61 so do the math i see where youp coming from on that measurement if they shaved it it would be less than that.Mike.and 1.6100 works out to 1 9/16 and a hair.so it was'nt shaved they must have put some real slammers through that poor ol thing .Mike

walker inside frame top exactly 1 3/4 in.Mike

I have a used 357 Security Six cylinder. It's not perfect on the outside, but the cylinders are good. PM me if you need it.

As it stands now I am going to have the cylinder replaced. I took it to the new gunsmith and had him give it a good look over. Its definelty out of spec, and hes not even sure its a Ruger cylinder, thinks its one thats been shaved to fit, Better safe than sorry I guess !

Jim, I sent you a pm regarding your cylinder. I'll update this thread and let everyone know how it turns out.

Thanks again guys, y'all have been a big help !