Ruger timing, throwbye issue

I have an Old Model Ruger Vaquero in 45 that I want to use in Cowboy Fast Draw Shooting. I know nothing about the prior use of the gun , but see no real issues, damage or modifications. My problem is that when drawn and cocked at speed as we do in CFDA the cylinder rolls past the lock, resulting of course in no "BANG!", a result that is just no darn good on the line. Drawing the hammer back normally, or what I think of as slowly, results in a good lockup on the cylinder and the expected result when the trigger is pulled. I tried changing the pawl and the cylinder latch, same issue remains. Any ideas or suggestions?

This is just a guess, but I wonder if the springs have been monkeyed with or are tired? Maybe replacing them with new ones would help.

Which springs would affect this and/or allow cylinder roll by? Cylinder latch spring? Pawl Spring? Other?

Cyl latch spring.

But you should always check the latch to cyl notch "fit" first.

Cyl Throw By (over travel):

A new cyl stop may take more fitting work than just "tuning up" your original stop, including to the front cyl stop shelf (see photo below which is a S&W but the principle is the same).

1.First troubleshoot:

The 1st thing you want to know is if the cyl stop is reaching the bottom of the notch and if it's centered in the notch.
"Paint" the bottom of the cyl notches with a black Sharpie felt pen. Cycle the cyl around several times by dry firing in single or double action. Look for a "footprint" of the cyl stop in the bottom of the notch; it'll be a bright spot in the ink.
If no footprint, the stop needs raising, see STEP 2 below.

If there is a foot print, is it a square 'footprint' in the center bottom of each notch. If not see STEP 1.

STEP 1] If the footprint is off center, the top of the cyl stop is not shaped right and does not allow deepest and full engagement in the notches. Stone the top surface to reshape slightly so the high point of the stop leaves a footprint in the ink at the bottom of the notch. A Dremel tool with polishing wheel is good for this if you have some skill with one. Either can be done w/o disassembling the gun.

If the cyl line (cyl stop track) is off center in the approach ramp (notch lead), that's an indication the stop is not shaped properly.

Once you get the footprint at center in the bottom of the notch, check for over travel. If none, you fixed it.

STEP 2] If no footprint in bottom of notch and/or cyl still free spins do this next:
Remove cyl stop from the gun and stone a little off the surface in front of the actual stop lobe. This will allow higher protrusion of the lobe thru the frame opening. Stone until it leaves a footprint. See post #3 here:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/541591-model-36-cylinder-can-turned-hand-when-closed.html#post139822921


Photo by armorer951


And then do STEP 1. Once there's a footprint but not in the center of the notch, the stop can not engage the full depth of the notch. And the front-to-back curve of the stop lobe needs re-shaping of the curve to ctr it. This takes very little stoning to change the curve and 'move' the footprint to the ctr.

If there's a round footprint, the stop lobe top surface has a hump from left side to right side and needs flattening with a stone.

Be sure to leave both of the stop lobe edges square, especially the left edge to keep from jumping the notch.

If the side edges of the cyl notches are burred up, 'upset' them back to flush with cyl surface using a flat tip punch that's polished on the tip; use gentle tapping with a very small hammer.

Recheck that the footprint is reaching the bottom of the notch and looks square.

That will do it. Any questions, please just ask.

Thanks a million, will see what happens after going through the above steps and will let you know...thanks!!

You have an 'original' Vaquero not an 'old model'. There are only 'original and 'new model' Vaqueros. ...as far as damage to the cylinder stop, this might be a good read for you.

http://rugerforum.net/ruger-double-action/11178-dry-firing.html

quote> The reason why dry firing causes more damage is twofold. First, people tend to be a bit more aggressive when pulling the trigger in DA or cocking the hammer in SA when they dry fire. This makes the cylinderrotate very fast and come to an abrupt halt when the cylinder latch contacts the cylinder's lock notches. This peens the lock notches and the frame's "window" for the cylinder latch. It doesn't take long and the cylinder lock-up becomes loose. Additionally, the hand pushes a ratchet to rotate the cylinder. These two surfaces wear which retards cylinder timing (carry-up) and the faster you operate the gun, the faster they will wear.

Shooters often say a revolver has been "shot loose" when indeed it really has nothing to do with firing the gun but rather how much damage has been done by peening (dry fire or live fire). The good news is ... Rugers have larger and deeper lock notches and a much larger cylinder stop so they will outlive a comparable S&W by about 3:1. <end quote

Thanks, can't say enough about all the help you and others have been in helping me learn new things and/or verify hunches regarding all this ....and forgive me on the "Old Model" thing....it is indeed original or new model, bad habit I have of slipping into others terminology at times.....thanks again!

semantics, if you do NOT have the New Model Vaquero, then you have an "old " one..........as often said around here ALL Vaqueros are "NEW" models........we know what you meant


and the info is good, bottom line is YOUR gun is out of time but if checked for timing the way the "set up", " fitting" occurs ( at the factory), most likely falls in spec...they were NOT set up for slam fire, fast ( quick) draw, thats why the guys who did that ,,had their guns "fitted, set up" to do so, IE., Bowman, Dunning, and on and on
used to watch our friend Ron Paul D. over at the Marine Corps Gunny Hall practice, and practice, and practice........amazing stuff, we sold LOTS of parts to the boys ( girls)at the Buckeye Fast Draw...

After close inspection, the cylinder notches are definitely peened, seems Ruger will be getting the gun for a short while to repair/replace things...thanks again to all for the help and info.