Pin gages for Single Six

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gssp

Bearcat
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Tried this in the Rimfire section with zero responses. Let's try it here.

Picking up a new, SS, Bisley in 22 LR. Placing an order for some pin gages to measure cylinder throats to insure they're all equal. What size pin gages would you suggest I buy?

Thanks
 

NikA

Buckeye
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It's my understanding that standard bullet size for .22LR is .223"; I'd want a few thousandths on either side of that, so probably .221"-.226". It's up to you whether you think you need increments of .001" or .0005".
 

DougGuy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
171
I found the standard pins barely adequate for revolver cylinders without the half thousandths between them, and I use the half thousandth pins as much as any of the standard pins. Half a thousandth when you are talking about cylinder throats is a LOT really.

I hope you got the Z minus gage pins.

If you look on fleabay and want whole sets, the Meyer M2 set is a Z minus set -0002" that runs from .251" to .500" The M25 set is the half thousandths Z minus set -0002" that runs from .2515" to .5005" there are both sets currently listed at the time of this post.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
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1,404
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South Texas
I agree. When you get to measuring the 22 throats you are going to be shocked.

The smaller the throats, the more important the half thou pins are.

You are going to also need a Micrometer. I suggest a Starrett. 22 Rimfire ammo is also all over the place as well. No point in measuring the throats to the half thou and then using a dial caliper to measure your ammo.

I use a Paco Accruizr tool sized to my 22s throats. It's pretty hard to get consistent ammunition by whacking it with a mallet. Kind of silly really. I use a bench rest arbor press and simply mark the lever with a sharpie when I get my 22 the exact diameter I want it to be.
 

DougGuy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
171
Pins will always be more accurate than a snap gage. The margin of error using the snap gages is quite large and the worst part of it is that the snap gage only measures 180 degrees of a bore at one time, the pin gage is much more suited to fitting a boolit or a reamer or a pilot to a throat because the pin is a 360 degree finite object. It measures the complete inner circumference of the circle and the complete cylinder at the SAME TIME, something no other gage can do.

The one thing the pin gage can't do is measure ellipse. It can FIND ellipse but not measure it. For this I use a Starrett split ball dial bore gauge that reads in .0001" increments, simply use a master ring to zero the gauge, put the gauge into the throat, read the difference and either add or subtract from the master ring, now you are reading actual diameter in tenths of a thousandth. Simply turn the axis of the probe and watch the dial face, the change in reading is how much of an oval or ellipse is in the throat. Moving the probe longitudinally in the throat will measure taper, or what we call belled/bellmouth.

I have on my bench right now a 357 Maximum cylinder that has some cats eye throats. When I first started using the Starrett dial bore gauge, I was wondering if it was reading true, it was showing .0007" out of rounds on half the throats, and .0003" to .0006" out on the others. It was quite comical really, turn the gauge and watch the dial creeping all over the place and it makes you think well WTF is up wit dat? Then using a pin gage I could look along the sides of the pin when I held it in the light just right, and I could see light on each side of it. The gage pin showed that the dial bore gauge had been telling the truth the whole time. This is another way the pin gage is the superior tool to use for revolver cylinder and autopistol barrel measurements.

There was a 357 cylinder sent to me for reaming, the customer wanted the throats .360" to shoot the same ammo as his levergun liked. He sent a few dummies with .360" boolits seated and crimped for me to use as a gage. I discovered that two of his chambers were reamed so small that even the dummies I had with .358" boolits wouldn't chamber, let alone his dummies with the larger boolits. We spoke on the phone about this and the story is that he sent it back to Ruger, with a note explaining there was something wrong with two of the chambers and they refused to address the issue, sent the gun back untouched.

Since I had both sets of pin gages I discovered that those two chambers had been reamed undersized by a really worn out reamer at the factory, back when they used to gang ream cylinders 3 holes at a time with a Hitachi machine that had 3 cutters. As those cutters wore, they would replace them but they only replaced the worst ones, one at a time, and they left the others until they too wore down too far to use. His cylinder had been made on this same machine, and the one badly worn reamer had cut a pair of chambers that would only accept a .376" pin or something like that, SAAMI calls for .380" behind the chamfer, and I had to go out and BUY a Clymer finishing reamer and redo those two chambers to save that cylinder and get it shooting again. So it left with all .3605" throats and all .380" chambers which he reported back saying the gun had NEVER shot this good in the 20+ years that he owned it.

Pin gages rock! You cannot do this stuff without them.
 

NikA

Buckeye
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I've never heard them referred to as snap gages, but I was referring to Starrett 829/830/831 gages and the equivalents. I wouldn't use them as a replacement for .001" pin gages, but as a supplement to get the true dimensions between the gages and determine the degree to which a hole is out of round. They are a very similar setup to the split ball dial bore gages, albeit dependent on the skill of the operator and requiring an external device to measure the dimensions.
 

DougGuy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
171
You are correct those are split ball gauges, I thought you were referring to the telescoping style with the spring and you lock them then remove and measure. I have one set of the 831 gages and a single 829 that I used for 45 cylinders and I found it a little difficult to determine exactly where to consider it correct unless the throat was pretty straight. It seemed like any movement at all really confused matters but now looking at a dial bore gauge doing the same job it is no wonder why, as this dial moves a lot as the probe is moved around.
 

DougGuy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
171
Wow that's gorgeous! I don't know how the chambers are on those, either dimensionally or how consistent they are in size, I ream a lot of S&W kit gun cylinders that are unbelievably undersized and they have extraction issues and some won't chamber but certain brands of ammo. Pretty common with the Smiths but I have not heard these issues with the Ruger.

I have a Manson finishing reamer for the chambers which is neither match grade or the largest they make, mine is about middle of the range of tolerance, and I have the proper mandrel and stones for the Sunnen hone so all of the measuring and the correcting tooling is here if you need either or both. In fact I -just- got a master ring gauge measuring .2250" to set the Starrett dial bore gauge to zero, which would then be calibrated and set correctly for measuring 22 caliber cylinder throats.
 
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