Helping a friend get started in reloading....

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mikld

Blackhawk
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
947
Location
Oregon
Reading more about this new comer, I might reconsider "helping". I would never give a new reloader a load, I would show him how to read his reloading manual(s). I tell all new reloaders my "Rule #1"; pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website well meaning friend, or gun shop guru. Get load data from published reloading manuals and stick to that data. This will keep new reloaders out of trouble and I have been doing this for 30+ years with only an occasional look-see at a powder manufacturer's web site. (in 1970 I had a squib and never had a Kaboom...).
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
Digital scales are prevalent today because: they are cheaper, a chimp can run one, they are suitable for automation, can automatically convert units, have a wider range of weights, have better resolution/accuracy, auto tare and easier calibration. Their problems are: they are sensitive to electrical/magnetic fields and are more sensitive to temperature and air movement. You can reload with either type so long as they are calibrated.
 

loaded round

Hunter
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
2,257
Location
Valley Forge, Pa
Grobin: FYI, Digital balances in today's dollars are much more cheaper than analytical scales of yesteryear. Electronic digital balances for the past ten years have been basically unaffected by florescent fields with the exception of the cheaper 15-20.00 ones sold at Harbor Freight and similar stores. Close magnetic fields will affect any type balance that has steel components. You are 100% correct regarding your other comments about digital balances.


quote="grobin"]Digital scales are prevalent today because: they are cheaper, a chimp can run one, they are suitable for automation, can automatically convert units, have a wider range of weights, have better resolution/accuracy, auto tare and easier calibration. Their problems are: they are sensitive to electrical/magnetic fields and are more sensitive to temperature and air movement. You can reload with either type so long as they are calibrated.[/quote]
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
Like I said they are relatively cheaper than analog. BUT all are susceptible to electronic and magnetic fields. At least the common torsion beam ones are. Use an empty pan and move the scale near an electric motor or flo. This includes reloading balances like RCBS, Lyman and Hornady. Not as much affected as the cheaper ones but at the .1 grain levels they all are!
 

Clovishound

Blackhawk
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
802
Location
Summerville SC
I really like my little Frankford Arsenal digital scale. I do find that it can be a little finicky at times, and so I have a quality beam scale set up to double check any time I have questions about the reading from the digital. I always use the beam to verify a weight when changing the throws on my powder measure. Otherwise, the digital is just to give me periodic QCs to make sure I don't drift off. It works well for that, and is far more convenient for checking bullet weights.
 

Mus408

Hunter
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
2,333
Location
Va.
Well he got 80 rounds loaded without too much issue and made diligent checks on powder weight and
COL. He made up a few dummy rounds less powder/primer for checking purposes in his Marlin rifle.

That load I suggested to him came out of my Speer No. 13 book and is a good one for
.44 Mag plinking revolver or rifle and I use it all the time.
I did suggest he compare any load data he may come across with a load manual.
 

mikld

Blackhawk
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
947
Location
Oregon
I have a digital scale I bought from Frankfort Arsenal. When setting up I set my powder measure against my RCBS 5-10 or my Lyman D5. Then I check my digital against the measurements I get on my beam scales. I check zero every time I replace the pan and on cold days I put the scale under a 100 watt light bulb for 5 or so minutes to get the chill off (I have had variations when the scale is cold).

Jgt: Not trying to start a spitting contest with you, but you're incorrect regarding digital balances. Laboratory grade digital balances can be purchased from around 500.00 to 10,000.00.
I believe we are discussing scales for reloading. Yep there are Lab quality digital scales, but waaay out of reach for most reloaders and .01 grain is not needed in reloading. I have seen some Ohaus lab quality beam scales that will also measure to less than .01 grain...
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
The cost of a lab balance is largely determined by the resolution/accuracy and the weight range. Balance capacity is given in grams typically. A mg (0.001grams is 0.0154324 grains) is too fine a resolution and a 0.01gram is fine. A Ohaus lab balance with 85g capacity x 0.1mg readability is ~$1,200 one with 220g capacity and 0.001 resolution is ~$300.
 

Twoboxer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
190
Unfortunately, "readability" has little to do with "precision" or "repeatability". Under ~$500, the strain gauge used is far too susceptible to noise, both on the line and over the air. This is what causes these scales to flutter and frequently lose zero.

When a scale has lost zero, do you have any idea when it lost zero? Was it on the way up to the weight in the pan? On the way down to the negative weight absent the pan? Or on the way back up to zero? You have no clue which.

Some of these scales hold zero better than others via programming that ignores small changes in weight from the current reading. Unfortunately, that makes trickling into those scales a bit of a pain since with most every trickle one needs to tap the pan to force a reweighing.

The "lab grade" scales are those that do not use a strain gauge. AFAIK, at this time the least expensive of these is the A&D FX120i available at ~$500. The scale is so good that aftermarket devices (AutoTrickler, AutoThrower) use the "outdated" serial port on the scale to turn it into a +/- one particle dispenser.

While $500 may be out of reach for some (~$720 with an AutoTrickler), saying these scales are not suitable for reloading is just flat out wrong.
 

loaded round

Hunter
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
2,257
Location
Valley Forge, Pa
Are you referring to a scale or a balance...two different things?

Twoboxer said:
Unfortunately, "readability" has little to do with "precision" or "repeatability". Under ~$500, the strain gauge used is far too susceptible to noise, both on the line and over the air. This is what causes these scales to flutter and frequently lose zero.

When a scale has lost zero, do you have any idea when it lost zero? Was it on the way up to the weight in the pan? On the way down to the negative weight absent the pan? Or on the way back up to zero? You have no clue which.

Some of these scales hold zero better than others via programming that ignores small changes in weight from the current reading. Unfortunately, that makes trickling into those scales a bit of a pain since with most every trickle one needs to tap the pan to force a reweighing.

The "lab grade" scales are those that do not use a strain gauge. AFAIK, at this time the least expensive of these is the A&D FX120i available at ~$500. The scale is so good that aftermarket devices (AutoTrickler, AutoThrower) use the "outdated" serial port on the scale to turn it into a +/- one particle dispenser.

While $500 may be out of reach for some (~$720 with an AutoTrickler), saying these scales are not suitable for reloading is just flat out wrong.
 

Twoboxer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
190
loaded round said:
Are you referring to a scale or a balance...two different things?
I'm referring to devices like the Gempro 250, Chargemasters, and other similar weighing devices that use strain gauge load cells and are described as scales. The FX120i is called a balance, uses a hybrid mag force restoration device, and is not sensitive to RF and other "noise".

These are things we commonly, if incorrectly, refer to as "scales".
 

RandyP

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
91
"While $500 may be out of reach for some (~$720 with an AutoTrickler), saying these scales are not suitable for reloading is just flat out wrong."

Out of reach for 'some'? lol Thanks, it's cold and snowy here in Chicago and I needed a good laugh. Not an accurate full accounting, but I'm thinking $500 would cover most of all my reloading gear.
 
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