Theoretical 22LR question

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loaded round

Hunter
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I have a serious 22 LR question about the best 22 LR stopping power. I have a relative who is a non shooter but an avid camper. He bought a used pristine OM Ruger Bearcat 22 LR. He has shot it several times with me and he does understand the pistols fundamentals and safety. He asked me what would the 22 LR round to use regarding carry as a trail pistol. It's been many any years since I've compared various 22's so I need some opinions. He wants nothing bigger and is basically concerned with the two legged varmint species. Any advice guys?
 

Mus408

Hunter
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Well I would select high velocity hollow points and practice head and chest shots.

Have a neighbor who got accidently shot with a 22 LR during a hunting excursion with a friend some years ago.
He said the bullet entered on his right side and he could feel it bouncing around though I don't think it made an exit.

Maybe talk him into a .22 Mag revolver!
 

Snake45

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This one is easy: For ANY .22LR defensive gun, you want THE MOST DEPENDABLE ammo you can find regardless of velocity, bullet type, accuracy, etc. FWIW, I've had very high reliability with CCI Mini-Mags, which happily are also quite accurate in most guns. Not the cheapest ammo on the market but far from the most expensive.

Remington Thunderbolts and Remington Golden Bullets shouldn't be considered at all.

The cheap bulk Federal stuff from Walmart USED to be extremely reliable, but when The Great Ammo Famine hit about 2009 I believe Federal started shipping lots of ammo that would have previously been rejected for high failure rates. I used a lot of the stuff for many many years but haven't bought any since about 2010 so have no idea what the quality/reliability is like now.
 

GunnyGene

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Snake45 said:
This one is easy: For ANY .22LR defensive gun, you want THE MOST DEPENDABLE ammo you can find regardless of velocity, bullet type, accuracy, etc. FWIW, I've had very high reliability with CCI Mini-Mags, which happily are also quite accurate in most guns. Not the cheapest ammo on the market but far from the most expensive.

Remington Thunderbolts and Remington Golden Bullets shouldn't be considered at all.

The cheap bulk Federal stuff from Walmart USED to be extremely reliable, but when The Great Ammo Famine hit about 2009 I believe Federal started shipping lots of ammo that would have previously been rejected for high failure rates. I used a lot of the stuff for many many years but haven't bought any since about 2010 so have no idea what the quality/reliability is like now.

I'd go with the CCI Velocitor. 40gr HP @ 1435fps vs 36gr @ 1260fps for the Mini-Mag. Both advertised velocity, and will vary depending on the gun of course, but the Velocitor will have better terminal ballistics regardless. I shoot both, and my handguns and long gun prefers the Velocitor. Never had a problem with either. Small price difference.

A note: .22lr of any flavor isn't going to stop anyone unless you put one in the brain. Better be prepared to empty the cylinder just as fast as you can. The Bearcat is a good SA revolver, but it is not a SD gun.

Full detail comparison:

CWruxMd.jpg


I agree about the .22wmr for Mr. badguy. Also would recommend a short barrel revolver such as the LCR. I load mine with two Hornady .22wmr ratshot and 4 Hornady Critical Defense. Ratshot up first, then the CD. Ratshot to the face from 10 ft or so, will put 2 or 3 pellets in each eyeball instantly & permanently blinding him, and the CD hits nearly as hard as a .380.

Downside is the package price for the gun and ammo.
 
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loaded round said:
Guys, I tried talking him into something a bit bigger, but he has the Bearcat and that's what he wants to carry because of size and weight.
He is slowly going in the correct direction. I doubt he is a hunter or he would be aware of the limitations of his chosen caliber. He may go his whole life and not need anything more, OTOH? Learn to shoot that Bearcat rapid fire-2 to the chest, and 1-to the circle around nose and inside of the eyes. Perhaps the confidence he will have, will keep the "predators" at bay? Good luck!
gramps
 

GunnyGene

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loaded round said:
Guys, I tried talking him into something a bit bigger, but he has the Bearcat and that's what he wants to carry because of size and weight.

The Bearcat is much bigger and heavier than an LCR in .22mag. 24oz and 9"OAL vs. 16.6oz and 6.5" OAL. I don't get it. Unless he figures to beat somebody to death with it. :?:

But whatever. I'd still recommend the CCI Velocitor for the Bearcat. And I really hope he never finds himself in a situation where his life depends on that gun.
 

grobin

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Find a round that the pistol likes, shoots well, and reliably. SD is where you place our shot not what you shoot. With a 22 the shot placement is critical: Heart, head, throat. Practice a lotand get so he can consistiantly place his shot. The CCI Velocitor is good but my pistols prefer the Mini-Mag. Plan on shooting a lot, if there is a traainfire or similar course available use it!
 

GunnyGene

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grobin said:
Find a round that the pistol likes, shoots well, and reliably. SD is where you place our shot not what you shoot. With a 22 the shot placement is critical: Heart, head, throat. Practice a lotand get so he can consistiantly place his shot. The CCI Velocitor is good but my pistols prefer the Mini-Mag. Plan on shooting a lot, if there is a traainfire or similar course available use it!

The problem with a small cal. SA like the Bearcat, is that if the attacker is within 20' or so, you're only going to get 1 (one) shot so it better be a damn good one, because he will be on you before you can recock and shoot again. And all this assumes you've got your .22 out, cocked & aimed for that first shot, and the attacker is unarmed & just standing their like a paper target. If BG is armed with say a common 9mm semi auto, it's "Say goodnight, Gracie".
 

Cholo

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I'll play the devil's advocate and recommend a solid 40 gr. bullet at the highest velocity, like this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/aguila-interceptor-22lr-plated-lead-round-nose-40-grain-500-rounds?a=1837102

I've read that a .22 LR likes to go on a little cruise while traveling thru your innards and I want it to take a piece of all the bits it can before it stops. I'd opt for penetration on large animals, both kinds!

I'd take it a step further and run them thru a Hanned Line .22 SGB (small game bullet) tool. You file a flat meplat onto the solid. It's a shame they're not made anymore, but I have one. I had a guy on www.rimefirecentral make me a 2nd and one for .22 longs. The Winchester SuperX .22 long CB-Match lead RN was only so-so on squirrels. Run them thru the die and they put an amazing smack on the rodents!

I'd avoid hollow point LR's for self defense, but what do I know :)
 

GunnyGene

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Cholo said:
I'll play the devil's advocate and recommend a solid 40 gr. bullet at the highest velocity, like this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/aguila-interceptor-22lr-plated-lead-round-nose-40-grain-500-rounds?a=1837102

I've read that a .22 LR likes to go on a little cruise while traveling thru your innards and I want it to take a piece of all the bits it can before it stops. I'd opt for penetration on large animals, both kinds!

I'd take it a step further and run them thru a Hanned Line .22 SGB (small game bullet) tool. You file a flat meplat onto the solid. It's a shame they're not made anymore, but I have one. I had a guy on http://www.rimefirecentral make me a 2nd and one for .22 longs. The Winchester SuperX .22 long CB-Match lead RN was only so-so on squirrels. Run them thru the die and they put an amazing smack on the rodents!

I'd avoid hollow point LR's for self defense, but what do I know :)

A little insight: I shot a medium size doe (about 100lbs) this past season with a 190gr .41mag LeveRevolution bullet from about 80 yds broadside perfect shot. It expanded like the package says it will, and exited the far side leaving about a 1" dia. exit hole, and taking a part of her heart with it. She jumped and ran about 60 yds before dropping. Now extrapolate that to a 200lb man that you shoot right in the heart with that lethal .22lr. What do you suppose is likely to happen? :wink:
 

Cholo

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I believe it's all about penetration when it comes to a .22 LR. Somehow this all doesn't sound right. The hole I'm digging gets deeper :mrgreen:
 

Twoboxer

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If he must carry a caliber that is only slightly more effective than a paint ball gun, it shouldn't be an over-weight 6-shooter with low capacity and slow reload.

EG, the Ruger SR22 weighs ONE-THIRD LESS than the Bearcat, is smaller in overall length and likely in width, and he can carry the two extra magazines he's likely to need if he ever needs to fend off 2-legged prey.

Just a thought.
 

GunnyGene

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Cholo said:
I believe it's all about penetration when it comes to a .22 LR. Somehow this all doesn't sound right. The hole I'm digging gets deeper :mrgreen:

.22 penetrates ok in soft tissue because its small. But the best you'll get is about 14" in gel and not much of a permanent or temporary wound channel. Much less thru clothing and muscle. Doesn't do well when it hits bone - round nose will ricochet, hp tends to clog up quick and act like a RN. But it will kill - eventually - from internal bleeding usually, which can take hours. Some BG's will run with a single hit, some won't. Druggies may not even feel it and just proceed to rip your head off. So I compromise and carry a 17+1 full size 9mm with 135gr Critical Duty, instead of a .50 Desert Eagle, and practice getting at least 5 shots on target inside of 3 sec. from retention. :)
 
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Teach the relative hand to hand combat with the gun. Grab the barrel and swing it like a hammer.
If it was me, I would only load 1 round in the gun, so when the bad guy takes it away it will be empty. Than I would not be shot, just beat up.
If he was my relative, I would buy the gun from him and tell him to get a good useful knife. Anyway you look at this, it would be more useful for the relatives purpose.
The best that gun will do to aid in human self defense against a or the human predator(s) is to be seen in a holster, after that?
 

grobin

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Lots and lots of ignorance here. It's where you hit not the cartridge that insures a kill! The throat is good as it's got the spinal cord, the arteries & veins, along with the esophagus. That's very vascular, along with the trachea hit either and the person bleeds out quickly and is incapicated. You need to know basic antimony and place your shots!
 

RandyP

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Velocitors, Stingers or anything else made by CCI - in my experience that brand has a proven track record for firing, but like any rimfire, expecting a dud now and then is logical.

IMHO - because of the inherent failing of a SA revolver in a SD situation, namely you are only going to get ONE shot opportunity, I sure as heck would not want to hear "click" instead of bang if that one shot was the rare dud.

IF your buddy is adamant about carrying the wrong gun in the wrong caliber for protection? Well then..... life is a series of choices and we all get to make them and live with the consequences. I would suspect that using a rimfire SA revolver in a real SD situation will result in the attacker now also owing a rimfire SA revolver.
 

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