.38 Spl. reloads will not fit in cylinder chamber.

kwh · Dec 11, 2018

Not new to reloading. Problem I can not solve. Lee 3 die kit, mixed brass. 158 gr lead SWC and 158 gr coated RNFP, 4.2 grains Unique powder.
Most reloads are too tight to fit in chamber. Varies from only able to insert 1/2 of cartridge,to almost fully seat but not deeply enough to allow cylinder to turn. Some drop in easily. Cartridge OAL within normal limits.
No difference which brass is used. No revolver chamber is tighter than another. All brass measures normal length. No bulging found. Brass drops in easily after sizing/depriming operation.
Lee seating/crimp die. I have tried different crimp tension and different bullet seating depths, always using crimp groove. Once I think I have got it solved,same problem over and over again.
Can not think of anything else to try. Is it something I am doing wrong ,but now wondering if it could be the die?? Never a problem with my other caliber reloads.

kmoore · Dec 12, 2018

1st lets see is it the load or brass. Put sized brass in all chambers and test that. If it will not fit adjust the sizer. If brass is not the problem.
Than check the bullet dia.
Tell us what happens when you check both.

Clovishound · Dec 12, 2018

Well, the easy solution would be the Lee Factory Crimp die. The issue with that is, if your bullets are too large a diameter, then they may lose neck tension after post seating sizing.

What diameter are your bullets? You should be able to get by with a couple thousandths over .357. Most folks do just fine with .358.

Too much crimp may cause a bulge.

You could always mark the case all over with a magical marker, chamber it and then see where the marker comes off. This could help point you in the right direction.

Dan in MI · Dec 12, 2018

Clovishound said:
Too much crimp may cause a bulge.

I've seen this many times. Back off your crimp 1/4- 1/2 turn and try.

The crimp pushes down the whole case creating a non visible bulge or overall fattening.

kwh · Dec 12, 2018

Thanks to the above advice,I may have the answer. Bullet and brass sizing are fine. OAL is well with-in specs.
First, every single.38 Spl. round that would not chamber in my Ruger SP101 .38 Spl would easily chamber in my S&W 19-3 .357 magnum.
After many prior previous attempts,I started all over again. Began with no crimp and gradually increasing, testing each round individually and found the sweet spot. Great for the next 15 rounds. Then started producing rounds that would not chamber at all. I am using mixed brass. I determined certain brands of brass would chamber while other brands would not. Consistent in the inconsistency.
If I have the crimp/seating die set for one certain brand of brass, there are other brands that will not fit in the Ruger. Everything fits in the S&W.
My latest thinking is that the Ruger chambers have extremely tight tolerances. This is an early model when the SP101's first became available.
Further thoughts appreciated.
Is this a question for gunsmithing page?

5of7 · Dec 12, 2018

Check the brass for case length after resizing. The key to consistent crimps is consistent brass length.

mikld · Dec 12, 2018

If something does not fit, measure. Measure the case/cartridge along the body. Measure the bullet. Measure the OAL. A chamber is just a hole and a cartridge is just a peg. If the peg won't go into the hole, it's too big somewhere. Measure and find where the cartridge is too big, then you will know when it happens. Then determine why it happens and fix it...

Start with a clean gun. Measure your components before starting. Make sure your dies are correctly adjusted. Many, many chambering problems encountered by new reloaders is too much crimp, or flared case mouths with not enough crimp. I have been reloading 38 Specials since '69 in mebbe 8 different 38/357 revolvers and mixed brass has never been a problem. Some may have thicker walls, and even with .358" cast bullets, none would not chamber.

Disregard any posts telling you to use a Lee Factory Crimp die...

kwh · Dec 12, 2018

Thanks. Have done all the measurements and adjusting. Best guess is crimp is determining factor. Still do not know why, when properly adjusted for some brass, other brass is too tight to fit. Dies are tight. Chambers clean.
Still does not answer question why all reloads will fit in the S&W but only some will fit in the Ruger.

Rick Courtright · Dec 12, 2018

mikld said:
If something does not fit, measure. Measure the case/cartridge along the body. Measure the bullet. Measure the OAL. A chamber is just a hole and a cartridge is just a peg. If the peg won't go into the hole, it's too big somewhere. Measure and find where the cartridge is too big, then you will know when it happens. Then determine why it happens and fix it...

Hi,

OR the hole is TOO SMALL. As this story continues to unfold, the little voice in the back of my head says, louder and louder, "Get those chambers checked and worked over as required to meet SAAMI specs." Not "Ruger specs"--we all know how variable those can be!

We've got an experienced reloader who's never had this problem before, and two guns. Gun A is not a problem at all, and the troubles all seem to come with gun B. What's that tell us?

Rick C

Cholo · Dec 12, 2018

I had the same problem. A year ago Oct. I went to contender's meet in NC. I brought my 2 latest Old Model Flattop .357's. My reloads wouldn't chamber. They chamber in all my other Rugers, Smiths and Colts, but not in these 2. The brass was nickel plated Winchester I bought in the 70's. I'd forgotten about it till 2 days ago. I looked at my stash and I had some of the exact same loads and bullets but in Federal and Starline brass. They plunked right in and did that little bounce.

Then I saw this thread. I measured the center of both brand cartridges and they were exactly the same. Below the case mouth about where the center of the bullet would be the nickel cases measured .002 thicker than the brass Starline. Nickel isn't .001" thick so why the difference? The Starline was brand new and the Winchester was on it's 10th loading of 6.5 grs. of Unique and a 160 gr SWC.

The bottom line was:

1) The reloads that wouldn't fit were all the nickel Winchester out of multiple boxes loaded at different times. Crimp was not an issue.

2) The chambers of these 2 flattops are tighter than the other guns that these reloads work in.

3) I'll only use brass cases in all my Old Models from now on.

As to the OP: Yes, crimp can be a problem as it can smash the case just enough to cause problems.

Enigma · Dec 12, 2018

Cholo said:
I had the same problem. A year ago Oct. I went to contender's meet in NC. I brought my 2 latest Old Model Flattop .357's. My reloads wouldn't chamber. They chamber in all my other Rugers, Smiths and Colts, but not in these 2. The brass was nickel plated Winchester I bought in the 70's. I'd forgotten about it till 2 days ago. I looked at my stash and I had some of the exact same loads and bullets but in Federal and Starline brass. They plunked right in and did that little bounce.

Then I saw this thread. I measured the center of both brand cartridges and they were exactly the same. Below the case mouth about where the center of the bullet would be the nickel cases measured .002 thicker than the brass Starline. Nickel isn't .001" thick so why the difference? The Starline was brand new and the Winchester was on it's 10th loading of 6.5 grs. of Unique and a 160 gr SWC.

The bottom line was:

1) The reloads that wouldn't fit were all the nickel Winchester out of multiple boxes loaded at different times. Crimp was not an issue.

2) The chambers of these 2 flattops are tighter than the other guns that these reloads work in.

3) I'll only use brass cases in all my Old Models from now on.

As to the OP: Yes, crimp can be a problem as it can smash the case just enough to cause problems.

I have also experienced this. I've owned many .38 and .357 Mag revolvers over the past 45 years, and never experienced a problem with my reloads. Then I bought a used S&W M10-8, 4" HB. That gun has THE TIGHTEST chambers of any 35~ish caliber revolver I've ever owned! Ammo that has fit the chambers of numerous Rugers, Colts, Smiths and the odd Taurus simply WILL NOT completely chamber in this gun! Once I return to the States, I believe I'll send the cylinder out for some work.

kwh · Dec 13, 2018

Thanks to everyone.
It has been a long and frustrating process. With all the above help, I believe the solution is to have the chambers checked.

gunzo · Dec 13, 2018

kwh said:
Thanks to everyone.
It has been a long and frustrating process. With all the above help, I believe the solution is to have the chambers checked.

I couldn't say it better than Rick C. . Getting them checked is job 1.

Keep us posted.

RandyP · Dec 13, 2018

To remove one other variable, does factory ammo function properly in this handgun?

Clovishound · Dec 14, 2018

kwh said:
Thanks. Have done all the measurements and adjusting. Best guess is crimp is determining factor. Still do not know why, when properly adjusted for some brass, other brass is too tight to fit. Dies are tight. Chambers clean.
Still does not answer question why all reloads will fit in the S&W but only some will fit in the Ruger.

Case length can affect crimp. Most folks don't bother to trim pistol cases, but for really consistent crimps.......

I see no problem with using a factory crimp die, if you don't have an issue with it causing a problem with neck tension. As I understand, it is usually on a issue with cast that are several thousandths over nominal. I have used them for pistol cases, and didn't see any real gain. Of course, I don't have really tight cylinders either.

kmoore · Dec 14, 2018

KWH has told us everything we suggest he is sure that's not the problem or he knows what he is doing. If all that is true.
Now add that the ammo works fine in another gun.
1 Even through he says it is clean. If that was mine, I would take a drill with a cleaning rod and .40cal brush and run it at high speed through each cylinder and that way you know it is clean. That's how we do it as a dept. amourer.
2 get the cylinder back to Ruger or a factory repair and have it checked.

Jimbo357mag · Dec 14, 2018

Size the brass, then trim to length, then chamfer and deburr, then bell the mouth, then seat the bullet, then crimp and post size with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Guaranteed no more problems.

kmoore · Dec 15, 2018

I will admit I had same problem a couple years ago. I had loaded 200 .357s 158gr. JHPs. Than took the spacer out of the die and loaded 50 .38s 158 SWCs. That I had poured and lubed/sized, most cases would not freely drop into the cylinder I pulled the bullets rechecked the the sizer die. Sized and belled cases again and they all worked. I have mixed case brands. I though I may have had the die loose the 1st time but not sure.

RSIno1 · Dec 15, 2018

I had the problem once and just ended up running the loaded rounds back through the sizer.

Rick Courtright · Dec 17, 2018

Jimbo357mag said:
Size the brass, then trim to length, then chamfer and deburr, then bell the mouth, then seat the bullet, then crimp and post size with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Guaranteed no more problems.

Hi,

I agree with you, Jimbo, as I follow that same drill, subject to one condition: the chambers are the right size! To me, that means if I look at the SAAMI chamber drawing sizes and measure my chambers, there's agreement between the two. But if Ruger was saving a few pennies by not changing out the cutting tools doing the chambers on time in the OP's gun, resulting in undersized holes, all bets are off on the ammo. In the case of this thread, I feel safe in saying we've eliminated the ammo as the problem. It's been a while since I looked at the SAAMI pictures, but if memory serves, the specs are set up such that they'll allow tolerance stacking and still have a usable combination of gun and ammo. In other words, a minimum sized chamber should still allow a maximum sized round to just fit in.

Rick C

.38 Spl. reloads will not fit in cylinder chamber.

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