38 Super ???

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Does anyone reload for this caliber? Is it straightforward like 9mm? Well for that matter, as a cartridge does it have any advantages over 9mm? It's a strsight walled pistol caliber. And I know without the rim it will headspace off the case mouth, but is there anything else about it?

I was reading about IPSC and some article mentioned 38 Super is the "Go To" caliber in this field.

Anyway, I'm just sort of thinking about my next gun, I always like calibers which are not so mainstream.

Thanks!
 

22/45 Fan

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38 Super, and it's recent rimless equivalent 38 Super Comp, have been largely replaced by "9 mm Major" loads. The problem with 38 Super and .38 SC is the brass is expensive and IPSC (USPSA) and IDPA shooters generally loose their brass during competition. 9 mm brass is cheap and far more available and making major with it has gotten quite easy so the others have fallen out of favor.
 

contender

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As noted above,, in competition,, the USPSA has allowed the use of HOT 9mm ammo in the race guns due to brass expenses and complaints by shooters of availability etc.
BUT,,, the 38 super and 38 Super Comp are easily loaded,, and give higher velocities and when brass is available,, many enjoy it.
Owning a range,, I do get to collect brass and I do get some 38 Super, Super Comp etc.
 

grobin

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Not being a IPSC competitor I can't say what the merits of a slightly hotter round are. But as a competitive shooter I can say that practice really pays off. If 9mm is significantly cheaper/more convenient that potentially equates to more practice which gives better scores. Likewise if components are more available for reloading.
 

Johnnu2

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I have found .38 Super to be easily reloaded (exactly as 9mm is). I still use a single stage RCBS press. Just an FYI from a person who is NOT an expert. I stumbled upon the caliber last year (after 50 years of reloading). I had called Springfield Armory with a question about converting my 45 cal. Range Officer to 9mm. The technician told me that conversion could not be done, BUT, if I had a 9mm Range Officer, I could convert THAT gun to a .38 Super. Coincidentally, a range buddy told me that CCDN was running a sale on brand new SIG barrel in .38 Super for $40 shipped. New .38 Super mags were obtained separately from SA. My learning continued at that point. I bought a barrel, then learned I needed a barrel link and pin (got those from SA and installed them). Bought a new barrel busing and fitted it to both my barrels (tested for accuracy with both cals). I also learned about supported vs. unsupported barrels in this quest. Fortunately, the SIG barrel was supported with it's own feed ramp so all was good. Bought 500 rounds of brass from Starline (I think). I now have a really nice looking stainless steel SA Range Officer in in 9mm and .38 Super. Reason for doing all this? No real reason, just because I could.. :))))
J
 

contender

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grobin,,, in USPSA,, in the Open Category,, 9mm was allowed to be run hotter, and makes a "major" power factor. Otherwise all 9mm in USPSA is normally loaded. It's allowed in other categories but is a "minor" power factor.
Power factor is determined by the following formula.
Bullet weight, multiplied by velocity,, then divided by 1000.
Major is PF of 165 & over,, while anything under is Minor.
Example; in 9mm, a bullet weight of 147 traveling at a muzzle velocity of say 1150fps, will come out to 169050. Divide that number by 1000, and you get a PF of 169.05 for major.

38 Super,, due to case capacity,, can be run hotter, easier,, and not have the same pressure peak a 9mm does. 9mm is bullet depth sensitive for the pressure curve.
 

Jimbo357mag

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...so unless you are shooting competition the 38 Super makes a lot of sense for something a little bit different. :D :D

...and you might even be able to shoot it in some revolvers with a little bit of gunsmithing. :D :D
 
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Yes, something different as Jimbo and Johnnu2 have pointed out.

Thanks for all the other information as well. I do appreciate learning about calibers and the minor difference between two such as 9mm vs 38 Super.

I do reload for 9mm and find it easy. Well, not as easy as 45 Colt, just because the darn case is so small.
 

1ruger

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For may years I liked my Government model 38 Super...until I discovered 9x23mm.
Now 9x23mm is one of my favorite caliber. A 147gr FN FMJ bullet moving at average velocity of 1,300 fps will ruin anybody's day.
 

rangerbob

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No one mentioned the 38 Super's reason for being. It was introduced around 1929 as a cartridge for law enforcement to defeat mobster's body armor and their all steel cars. It a hotter loaded version of John Browning's 38 ACP round that appeared some quarter of a century earlier. It first appeared in the 1911 Colt and offered more powerful rounds than the 38 special revolvers most cops carried as well as a 10 round capacity. A few years later the introduction of the 357 Magnum in traditional revolvers took away most of the 38 Super's thunder and appeal. I've been reloading for 51 years and only found the 38 Super in 2016 when I acquired a Colt Competition Govt model. Brass is readily available from several sources if one is starting from scratch. As noted, once fired brass is scarce, not like 9mm brass. One can load the Super with just about any 9mm bullet and powder choices are just as numerous. The Super's ballistics are very similar to the 357 SIG, another round introduced for LE and available in more high cap pistols such as Sig, S&W, Glock, and Springfield. If Sig would make the P227 in 38 Super with 18 round magazines, that might be the definitive 38 Super LE/ carry gun. The 38 Super reloads as easily as the 9mm, 40, 10mm, or 45acp and is an interesting round to work with. Bob!! 8)
 

Rick Courtright

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rangerbob said:
No one mentioned the 38 Super's reason for being.

Hi,

I dunno the chronology with respect to the development of the cartridge, but I've been told--and known a couple of guys who had 'em for this reason--that the 1911 in .38 Super became fairly popular in Mexico for civilian use in response to gun control laws there which prohibit civilians from having firearms chambered in "military" calibers. With .45 ACP and 9mm being out as a result, the .38 Super stepped up to fill the gap. At least that's the story I've heard from down there.

Rick C
 

Enigma

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Rick Courtright said:
rangerbob said:
No one mentioned the 38 Super's reason for being.

Hi,

I dunno the chronology with respect to the development of the cartridge, but I've been told--and known a couple of guys who had 'em for this reason--that the 1911 in .38 Super became fairly popular in Mexico for civilian use in response to gun control laws there which prohibit civilians from having firearms chambered in "military" calibers. With .45 ACP and 9mm being out as a result, the .38 Super stepped up to fill the gap. At least that's the story I've heard from down there.

Rick C

Skeeter Skelton used to relate that story, and stated that the .38 Super was very popular among law enforcement officers in Mexico.
 

rangerbob

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The 38 Super does have a following in Mexico for the reason stated. It is also a familiar cartridge in Europe for the same reason, why else would Sig make P220's in that caliber. The 7.65 Luger cartridge has a small presence for the same reason and any pistol in 9mm can be a 7.65 with a simple barrel change. I have a 7.65 barrel for my Hi-Power and a LE buddy has one for his P226. Bob!! :D
 

dougader

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The 38 Automatic came out in 1900, while the 38 Super Automatic, nka just 38 Super, appeared in the late 1920's. The cases look identical, but the Super is loaded to higher pressure.

In early IPSC matches the Super round had been loaded as hot as 9x23 Winchester or about 50k psi. Super Face was something you'd see back then when the Major PF was set at 175... a condition cause by case rupture at those elevated pressures. Wood grips during these events would leave nasty splinters in the shooters' hands as well.

The 9x23 Winchester case was developed to contain those high pressures even in an unsupported 1911 barrel, although my Nowlin barrel is ramped and fully supported. Starline 9x23 brass is not made the same as the Winchester brass and max loads should be approached with caution.

For a time Colt made a switch barrel 1911 that would fire both 38 Super and 9x23 Winchester with just a barrel swap. My first 9x23 would chamber and fire both 38 Super and 9x23 Win. Not so with my Nowlin 9x23 barrel.

Loading the Super is relatively straightforward, much like other semi-auto pistol rounds, and works best when it is loaded to headspace on the case mouth, not the rim.

You'll see a lot of this information in the main handloading manuals, along with lots of data.
 
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Kevin said:
Yes, something different as Jimbo and Johnnu2 have pointed out. quote]

Put me in that camp as well.

I put a whole lot of emphasis on "something different."

I started varmint hunting with a 22/250 and big game hunting with a 30/06. What else would you need east of the Mississippi? Well, within a few years the 22/250 was gone and I had 7 varmint rifles, each in a wildcat caliber. The 30/06 was gone and I had a .358Win for the deep woods and a .284Win for the bean fields. I started a custom .300Winmag for the western hunts that never materialized.

So. I had 9mm & 45ACP 1911's that I love too much to part with ... but longed for another. What to do? Well, a Wilson Combat 38 Super scratched that itch. But now I feel a new itch for something different... I suspect there's a 10mm longslide with a red dot in my future.
 

tunnug

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Jimbo357mag said:
...so unless you are shooting competition the 38 Super makes a lot of sense for something a little bit different. :D :D

...and you might even be able to shoot it in some revolvers with a little bit of gunsmithing. :D :D
I've had 38 supers for a while, took my son and his friend shooting once, had my S&W 686 and also a 38 super, while I was loading mags my sons friend picked up the 686, loaded it and started shooting, right away I noticed the muted report, stopped him and asked what had he used to load it, he points to the 38super ammo, since it's a semi rimmed round it had loaded and shot properly on the .357, I still insisted he not shoot the supers out of the revolver, just not right.
 
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