Hot .45 Colt loads.

A few articles have been locked prematurely on someone talking about about SAMMI specs. I believe that there is a valid discussion to be had on hot loads. I know Randy Garrett of Garrett Cartridges loads .44 mag over the SAMMI specs and clearly states that and which guns they are recommended for. I for one would love to hear about Buffalo Bores theories on this and if they do something similiar since i have none of their ammo available in my reloading room. I have made quite a study of hot loads that are safe in blackhawks but I know my mid frame model New Vaquero needs to stick to the SAMMI level fodder.I believe this is an important discussion that would be valuable to discuss and would hope that any one biased mod would defer a day or two before locking the thread to at least see if we can have a civilized discussion.

what sort of scientific test equipment are you using for testing your hot loads. The best most of us can do is follow the guidelines of those who have done the testing properly and published the data. I think the threads were locked because they turned into arguments over semantics...grown men fighting over names...

NAMES DO MEAN SOMETHING !! For Instance : I do NOT want to shoot 45COLT HOT LOADS. i do want to shoot 45COLT heavy loads and there is ALL the difference in the world between the two.
Why do you insist on talking to everyone here when you can go to the horses mouth and talk to the owner of BUFFALO BORE ammunition, Tim Sundles. Be sure to ask him the correct questions !! Think about it !!

Chief 101 said:

what sort of scientific test equipment are you using for testing your hot loads. The best most of us can do is follow the guidelines of those who have done the testing properly and published the data. I think the threads were locked because they turned into arguments over semantics...grown men fighting over names...

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Hell, we have even argued over whether the word 'semantics' was the right term.... :roll:

BUT, that aside, the idea of loading the .45 LC at pressures above SAAMI recommended pressure levels is perfectly valid if it is approached cautiously and in the right firing fixture (gun).

There are data available to get one started and after that it is a matter of having a goodly amount of experience in handloading and a lot of common sense. By that I mean his expectations need to be pretty well grounded in reality.

In general, if one uses the slower powders available and a chronograph, he will find out what he wants to know without blowing his gun up. 8)

WIL TERRY said:

NAMES DO MEAN SOMETHING !! !!

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Oh oh......here we go again. :roll:

Well, I don't reload 45 Colt, but I do reload .44 Magnum. I can see no reason to load over book maximum and if the loads listed in my manuals aren't "hot" enough, I'll go to a larger cartridge or to a rifle...

mikld said:

Well, I don't reload 45 Colt, but I do reload .44 Magnum. I can see no reason to load over book maximum and if the loads listed in my manuals aren't "hot" enough, I'll go to a larger cartridge or to a rifle...

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The 44 magnum standard factory load varies quite a bit. The Max loads published in books has come down quite a bit in recent years. To say MAX load anymore leads one to some interpretation. I have a 99/44 semi-auto 44 magnum and it will not run on weak factory ammo. When fed a full charge of H-110 it will run fine when fed less, ...not so good.

The same is true for the 357 magnum. Over the years the Max loads have come down. Know your gun and know your load. It's that simple. I load some over Max loads in 357 magnum but I only shoot them in guns that I know can handle them, like a Bisley Blackhawk and a Winchester rifle. I will not shoot hot 357 magnums in my Smith Model 19. :shock:

Well, I don't reload 45....

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There you go . Most of us that do load .45 Colt have touched bases with Linebaugh, Seyfriend, Taffin, Pearce and some others that have blazed the path forward to making the .45 Colt what it is today. Most all of us are familiar with the history of the cartridge as well, and why it was called LC back when, and why the myth of weak cartridge existed, etc.... Anyway, they have found that the modern day .45 Colt revolver can handle significantly more than just 'SAAMI' loads. Brian Pearce nicely puts it as Tier 2 loads (around 20,000psi) . Some revolvers like the large frame BH/RH/SRH, FA, etc. can handle Tier 3 loads (Ruger Only Loads in the 30,000psi range) . It is all about 'knowing' your firearm and what it can handle. Not that difficult to do some research and draw your own conclusions. Tier 1 (SAAMI 14,000psi) hangs around because of all the pre-war guns still out there ....

I got a heavy load from the sierra tech line years back for a 300 gr. jacketed bullet supposedly safe in a Blackhawk. I switched to a 320 gr. Lead bullet with great results and it will chrono 1320 fps out of my 4 5/8ths blackhawk. Now that I have picked up a mid frame new Vaquero I may have to rethink all my loads or mark them somehow so I don't mix them up. Im thinking about backing them all down to 1000 fps. Elmer said at anything above 900 fps with a large caliber heavy for caliber bullet you could expect full side to side penetration on an Elk so Im thinking that should be good enough and be safe in the New Vaqueros too?

protoolman, you are on the right track. When shooting quality lead boolits,, around 1000 to 1100 fps with heavy boolits, you can stop most anything around and not recover a boolit. I got to playing with that same type of shooting and found that quite often, a good cast slug, wide meplate, running in the 1000 to 1100 range was a heck of a good game killer.

1000fps ... that should be good enough and be safe in the New Vaqueros too?

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Here is a good place to start your research : Brian Pearce on the .45 Colt

Thanks for the link to the Pearce article. I had read it once but its worth reviewing.

Dave Scovill wrote an interesting piece on this very subject in the August Handloader magazine..... :wink:

Rclark said:

1000fps ... that should be good enough and be safe in the New Vaqueros too?

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Here is a good place to start your research : Brian Pearce on the .45 Colt

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Hold on; if I understood the text correctly "...Other than much needed trigger work and a set of after-market stocks, the handgun was completely original. The throats measured .450 inch..." , Brian used for the testing revolver that has undersize cylinder bores. On top of that, I would definitely expect constricted barrel in threaded area.

Groups are not listed, instead few loads at 14 000 psi are just identified as "excellent". Too bad that he did not open cylinder bores on .4520-.4525, as normally done, and firelap barrel choke, I am confident that many more loads will fell in "excellent" category.

See in this http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/59 article how revolver could be improved when cylinder bores are opened on right dia and barrel constriction removed.

I just never go it. The .44mag vs. the hot loaded .45 colt. Yes there is plenty of data out there that suggest that a hot .45 colt, fired in the proper firearm, could exceed the .44mag.

I ask why? Why push a load/firearm to max performance? If you need more buy another caliber.

I have a New vaquero and a SBH. The vaquero was bought to play with, yet it has the power to take game. The SBH was bought and loads were developed to get foremost the most accurate groups and power.

If I need more from a firearm that it was intended to do, I buy one that will.

My favorite .45 colt load for the vaquero is 6gr of bullseye under a 185 SWC. Accurate, mild and fun to shoot. Yes it will take deer at 30 yards.

As a old reloader I would like to say that accuracy is first. Need more power? get a bigger gun.

I doubt we all shoot redline loads in our .45 Rugers as a matter of course. Same as a 400 hp musclecar ain't run at full throttle all the time. It's nice to know "it's there" if you catch my drift... :wink:

BTW my favorite load pushes a 290 gr bullet at near 1100 fps. I could go faster but don't feel the need! :shock:

There is plenty of 45 colt data that is specific to the modern guns. This is no different than 45-70 loads. These calibers were not developed around modern technology but modern technology has allowed these rounds to see full potential. A good heavy 45 colt round will best a .44 mag at less pressure. Ruger and Marlin used this to their advantage.

You can buy a bigger gun but if you reload and no what you are doing you don't have too.

Understood. I will stick to my way of thinking.
Had a .454 and a .460 for a time, waste of time. Around here they could not do anything the .44mag could not do. Loading modern firearms above old specs is fine with me. I bet my soft loading .45 colt is a lot more fun to shoot, I bought it for fun.

My standard load for my SBH is 21.5 gr of WW296 under a 290gr hard cast with an average of 1550 fps.

Enjoy,

A 290 gr @ 1550 fps? Talk about hot loads...(or a faulty chrono!)

I'm fine with a discussion , just a little vague on what the OP is actually asking.

If the question is : Is a +/- 1000fps load a good and worthwhile load ? The answer is absolutely. A 250-270gr SWC or LBT at 900-1000-ish fps is a fine load.

I don't have a small frame Ruger , but everything points to those being suitable for them.

Would those be the maxium possable for a sm frame ? A judgement call , with no clear answer yet.