Universal powder and Lee Dippers do not agree for me

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George

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Hello, I have a Lee powder scale The manual beam type Number 90681.I Zero my scale every time before I use it But for some reason when I use Universal powder It does not agree with the scale it will always measure much lighter. Right now I'm doing 45 ACP With Universal Powder The dipper that is called for Is the .5 CC DipperAnd when I dump it on my scale to check it it supposed to weigh 4.8 grains But actually weighs much less. I tried tapping it down to level and all different ways still can't get Unique Powder to agree with my dipper is this difference common for Unique Powder?I have used My Dippers and Lee scale With other powders such as number 7 Number 9 X700 all Are pretty darn good they agree. It only seems to be the unique That does have a discrepancy it should weight 4.8 grais but it weights 4.1At best but can be much lighter than that if I'm not really careful how I Level it off through tapping Wiping with a card Or shaking can some of you with the same components try it and see what you get wth Unique Powder And the .5 CC Dipper Though I still get the inacrsacy as with other Dippers and Unique Powder. Thank you all George
 

Jimbo357mag

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Feb 22, 2007
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Are you talking about Unique or Universal, two different powders.

I found their advise usually gives you a little less powder than what they say. The Lee Dippers will only give you an estimated load anyway. Always use the scale to confirm the weight of the powder. If you don't get enough powder from one dipper use the next larger one and don't fill it to the top. If you need to adjust a dipper you might try putting a little piece of cardboard in the bottom to take up some space. :D
 

George

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Jim, thank you. Yes I am talking about unique Trying to do this on my cell phone and I found numerous times It just don't work well I should be on my computer typing this stuff out Sorry about that I will be editing this when I get on my computer sometime this evening But thank you
 

Rick Courtright

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Mar 10, 2002
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Hi,

George, what you're experiencing is standard practice with all the various "fixed cavity" powder measuring devices I've ever used. The chart's set up with the (max) "book density" of a particular powder, but powder has a variance of up to -11% acording to one source I read long ago. End result: about 99 and 44/100% of fixed powder measures, including your dippers, throw "light" for most folks compared to what the chart says. Call it a built in safety measure.

A couple of ways of using the dippers come to mind. The first is to find the one which throws closest to your desired charge without exceeding it, and load "as is." The ammo you make will work fine for a lot of non-critical types of shooting. The other is to find the dipper which is close, without exceeding the desired charge, and throw that charge on the scale. Then, usually with a smaller dipper, trickle extra powder onto the scale to get your charge weighed in "dead nuts" for more precise uses.

Otherwise, an adjustable powder measure's the way to go, yet even then there will be variances, particularly from one type of powder to another. Ball powders can be measured out very close time after time in most cases. Flake powders will vary more. Unique gets a lot of bad press from the "It's only within 0.2 gr. What do I do?" crowd. Well, shoot it! While not the most consistent measuring powder, Unique is rather tolerant of the variances.

And remember, too, that all the recipes in your books are based on averages! So the guys in the white lab coats have already taken a lot of the guesswork out for you by developing loads "everybody" can assemble safely and consistently. A lot of times you'll see a particular powder missing from the recipe books. Not always, but often enough, that can be because it just didn't perform to the standards of the lab. It might still work, but the lab guys weren't happy.

Now you see why even those of us with many decades of experience still learn something every time we sit down at the bench!

Rick C
 

2sheriffs

Single-Sixer
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Jul 26, 2016
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I think the dippers were made for the old Hercules Unique. The new Unique is made by a different company and is said the be a little faster burning and also cleaner burning. 2400 is also a little faster and they don't recommend using magnum primers with it like they did with the old Hercules 2400. Hope everybody is having a good weekend.
Ron
 

RandyP

Bearcat
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
91
Lee's dippers have always been 'conservative' - I think the loads might be safe even over brimming the top of the dipper as much as possible.

For a few bucks more than a dipper set, if you are staying batch loading for a single stage press, you can get the dandy Lee Perfect powder measure and set it up on your bench, just dial in the weight you want.
 

DGW1949

Hunter
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Apr 10, 2005
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Texas
I agree with Rick C in that most (if not all) of the time, dippers are going to throw a lighter charge than advertised.
As for which "CC" measure the "chart" says to use for X-amount of powder...them new-fangled CC-measurements found on the newer LEE dippers are about as useless as the rather non-descript 3-digit numbers which they used to use on their old red dippers. Yeah, both numbering systems tell you that one dipper is smaller (or larger) than the next but heck, we already knew that just from looking.

At any rate, my solution to the "inaccurate chart" problem has been to pick the next largest dipper and trim the mouth down until it throws the weight I'm after.
Some guys prefer to put cardboard in the bottom of a larger dipper rather than permanently modify it as I do. I've also seen home made dippers which were fashioned by soldering a wire handle to an old cartridge case.

All of the above methods work, it just depends on how you want to skin the cat.

From the FWIW Dept:
I am a big fan of dipping "mid range" pistol/revolver charges, but only if/when I know for sure that the dipper I'm using is up to the task.
In other words, I've got a specifically-modified (LEE) dipper for each of the 4 calibers of pistol/revolver ammo which I load for, each of which is always loaded with the same powder, the same powder-charge (by volume), and the same weight/style of bullet which I settled on years ago.

As for dipping Unique VS dispensing Unique, I've found that there really aint much difference in the two methods relative to consistency, meaning that I can stay within .2 grains of charge weight either way.
Fact is, I seldom use my powder dispenser at all these days....but then again, I'm a one caliber-one load kind of guy.

DGW
 

George

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Thank you all very much. I have a better knowledge of measuring powder now And about the Lee Dippers. I like the idea of making my own too Maybe a small cartridge In like one of you said sorry on a piece of wire for handle. I can cut the case down any size that want for the right charger sounds like a good idea.I'll be posting one more question about case pressures But suppose I should start a new post for it. Again thank you all
 

gwpercle

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Aug 7, 2012
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Baton Rouge , Louisiana
With Unique , the Lee .5 cc scoop and using the following method :
1.) scoop up a full measure and tap to fully settle.
2.) scoop again to top off measure with a little mound.
3.) level measure off with the edge of a business card.

This weighs 4.4 grains of Unique. This is newer formulation of Unique powder.
I bet the old card that comes with the set was using the older Unique.
Regardless of what the card says , take your powder and check it with a scale , formulations change and that may affect the weight. Whenever I get a new bottle , I double check them just to make sure.

I find it interesting that that same .5cc measure , using the above dipping method, will dip:
5.0 gr. Bullseye
3.5 gr. Red Dot
6.4 gr. Tightgroup
5.5 gr.HP-38
7.7 gr. Accurate No. 5
4.4 gr. Unique
5.5 gr. Alcan AL-5
4.0 gr. 700X
Only AL-5 and HP-38 dip the same weight ! I sit down and weigh each powder with all the dippers I have and keep them recorded in a binder. I find dippers handy for short runs and don't feel like re adjusting my powder measure....that can get time consuming. Skeeter Skelton was a fan of dippers and used them in his portable reloading kit. They can drop quite accurate charges is used in a consistent manner.
Gary
 
Joined
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Long Island NY
I've used the dippers for years. What I do is this. Pretty much all lee die sets com with dippers. When I find a load I like I use the next larger size dipper and slowly trim it to the powder charge. Then I mark it and keep it with the die set.
I've also made dippers out of used brass. I just trim it to powder charge then solder a coat hanger to it. Then I glue a small dowel rod to the hanger for a better grip.
 
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"Lee's dippers have always been 'conservative' - I think the loads might be safe even over brimming the top of the dipper as much as possible."

I agree with the "conservative" comment. My FIL used an old LEE handload kit for his 38 SP ammo and thought it was just fine to "heap" the measure. He wasn't doing his old Colt Officers Match revolver any good with this but at least, he didn't blow it up.
 

Clovishound

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Dippers work. They are inexpensive. They are not prone to mechanical issues.

They are also a pain in the butt to use for more than a small handful of rounds.

As stated before the Lee perfect powder measure is inexpensive a just a little over $20. It is infinitely adjustable, so you can get the charge you really want. It is a stand alone measure vs a powder through die that is used on the press. It can leak a little with some of the fine grained powders. I bought one early on. I ended up with a turret press, so I went to an on the press measure, but still use the perfect powder measure for rifle calibers. For the price I paid for it, and the amount I have used it, it doesn't owe me a thing.

Just for info, Unique has a reputation for metering like gravel. Many disagree with that characterization, but the reputation is there.
 

mikld

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Dippers are only as accurate and consistent as the "dipee" (user). With experimentation you can vary the charge up to a full grain with different methods of dipping (bottom first, mouth first, powder flows into dipper, dipper pushed through powder, shaking, striking, etc.). There are many factors that will make dips vary from what the chart says, relative humidity is even an influence and I don't believe the manufacturer actually tied dipping and weighing, they just figgered the density of the powder and how much should fit into a specific size cavity/dipper (you know, engineer's thinkin'). I like dippers even though I have a few powder measures (I can't pass up a deal) and with practice and when I'm "on a roll", I can hold +/- .1 grain of Unique.
 

Tom W

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For killing paper the dippers work just fine. I usually have one for the .45, one for the 9mm, and I'll soon find one for my .38 special. If I use ball powder I prefer my measure.
 

PO2Hammer

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Minnesota
You have a scale and dippers, all you need is a powder trickler to fine tune your loads. it doesn't take more than a few seconds to trickle the charge up to what you want, plus you'll eliminate the charge variations with the dippers.

For all my high end loads in 357 I trickle Unique. For practice loads I use about a half grain less and just live with the variations. Haven't seen any fall off in accuracy with the weighed charges compared to the volume charges even with +/- .3 grain variations, Unique is very forgiving.
 

mikld

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FWIW; dippers are easy to customise, if your dipper/dipping method need to be larger, remove material from the cavity (drill slightly deeper or ream the cavity). If you need a lighter charge, add to the cavity (I have dripped epoxy into the cavity) or shorten the sides of the dipper. I have prolly 12 homemade dippers, each with a "custom" capacity for a specific charge of a specific powder...
 

w5lx

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Trust your scales. Forget the numbers on the dipper and use the dipper that corresponds with the readout on your scales. The dipper information is notoriously unreliable.
 

Rook

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George said:
Hello, I have a Lee powder scale The manual beam type Number 90681.I Zero my scale every time before I use it

You can zero your scales but how do you know that you've actually set the scales to the correct weight or that your scales are accurate without using check weights?

When I zero my scales and if I'm going to be using 10 grains of powder or what ever I put 10 grains of check weights in my scale pan and weight it to see if the scales are actually showing 10 grains of weight. If not I've either made a mistake setting my scales or the scales are off. I use the check weights every time I start to reload or when I change to a different weight of powder.

Check weights are cheap insurance and it doesn't take but a few seconds to use them.
 
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