Where to buy 7x57 Cu ammo?

I've been on the lookout for 7x57 ammo with copper bullets. It would seem that the major manufacturers have loaded copper for the more popular rounds and only a couple of the "obscure" cartridges. 7x57 doesn't seem to be one of the chosen few. I did find a reference to S&B loading Barnes TSX in 7x57 but an email to corporate has yielded no response.

Anyone know of copper bullets loaded in 7x57 or am I searching for a unicorn?

Clark

Here you go. In stock. 7x57 139 Grain GMX Superformance 20 Rounds

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000381556/7x57_139_Grain_GMX_Superformance_20_Rounds

At those prices I'd take up handloading my ammo. Oh wait! I aleady did. I am trying the 140 gr. Barnes TSX bullet in my 7x57. I'm getting the speed but so far not the accuracy I know the rifle will deliver. (140 gr. Nosler Balistic tip at 2800 FPS with .75" or smaller groups.) The price for that ammo will just about cover the price of a box of those TSX bullets. ($35.95)
Paul B.

Thanks for the information Jimbo! I thought I had scoured the internet very thoroughly however with the different names being used by different manufacturers for copper ammo it is difficult to remember what exactly you have searched for.

Congrats Paul on handloading. If the box of copper ammo was equal to the cost of the bullets, dies, powder and primers then it would make perfect sense for me right now. Since it doesn't I'll hold off on the necessary supplies for a bit.

Clark

It doesn't take many rounds for hunting and I imagine that is what you might want them for. Glad I could help.

What game are you hunting that you feel the need for "copper bullets" in a 7x57?

Mobuck, I'm not Clark but if he exists in California, it's mandatory you use copper bullets in part of the state and IIRC in five years it will be mandatory statewide. Here in Arizona we don't have that yet but up in the Kaibab National Forest hunters are asked to voluntarily use them as the area along with the Arizona Strip just north of the Kaibab are part of the Condor flyway. I've hunted that area maybe five times in the last thirty-five years and have never seen one of those overgrown buzzards yet.
I'm playing with the 100 gr. TSX in the .257 Robt,, and 20 and 140 gr. TSX in the 7x57 and .280 Rem. thinking if I get the accuracy I want I'll try the 140's on elk. The only TSX bullet I've had what I call success is the 225 gr. .35 Caliber bullet in my .35 Whelen. The stests to find an accurate max load came with the first trials and have taken three elk with one shot each. I like the idea of the all copper bullet but not sure how I feel about the mixed results I've gotten so far. Except for the .35's, I fell into a deal not only for the TSX bullets mentioned but a large quantityof .270 and 7MM Nosler partitions for $10 a box. I'm experimenting quite a bit with the 7x57 and in conference with a fellow who claims 2900 FPS plus with 150 gr. Noslers from a 22" Winchester M70 Featherweight. I've got the test loads all made up and just have to get to the range early enough so I can get my chronograph set up before the crowds show up. Must be a lot of people off work because usually by 8:30 to 9 AM all the benches are taken. I'm already getting 2800 FPS with 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips and the fact this fellow beats that with a bullet 10 gr. heavier and no apparent pressure signs intrigues the hell out of me. I even have the same type rifle. If I even reach only 2800 FPS with that bullet I'd be happy. It is a shame that we cannot get properly tested load data for use in modern rifles and have to work up load by the seat of our pants. Oh well. That just adds to the fun.
Paul B.

I hadn't thought about the Californicator regulations. I use H414 in my 7x57 loads with excellent results(24" barrel). Getting 2850 with 140 Ballistic Tips and great accuracy. Close to 2800 with a "bulk box" 154 tipped bullet(not hard to guess whose name would be on those) but not quite the accuracy -1.5" @100 yards in my bad weather SS barrel Mauser.

Mobuck. I use W760 in my 140 gr. Ballistic Tip loads. The load is safe in my M70 and Ruger #1 but too hot for my custom Mauser. I did an experiment with all three rifles that proved interesting. Bullet was the 175 gr. Hornady round nose, powder W760, Winchester brass and WLR primer. Brass was loaded to duplicate the original 2300 FPS of the 1892 Mauser load. The Ruger and M70 shot in the lower 2300's, 2310 from the Ruger and 2330 or 40 from the M70 IIRC. The custom Mauser shot that very same charge at 2450 FPS. :shock: My gunsmith said he used a match grade barrel andcut a match grade chamber. He did the same thing for a .308 Win. He did for me and it shows sight pressure signs at higher velocity with factory ammo. Both rifles shoot sub-MOA. The only problem with those rifles is if I miss it's definitely my fault.
With a bit of luck I may actually get out to the range tomorrow to see if those 2900+ 150 gr. loads really exist.
Paul B.

Jimbo's right, just using these for hunting. If I had the dies and primers I would just load my own but since I don't it's easier at this point to shell out the $ for the factory ammo.

Paul, I would be interested to hear if you get an accurate load for the 7x57 with TSX bullets, I will be headed down that road in a year or two.

Mobuck said:

What game are you hunting that you feel the need for "copper bullets" in a 7x57?

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It's not the game that I feel need the copper bullets, it's me. Testing in the last decade has shown that lead fragments can travel up to 12" from the wound channel in medium sized game (white tail). Physiologically lead is not our friend and if I can avoid that threat of contamination, why not?

Here is one of the pieces of evidence that switched my way of thinking about copper bullets, at ~7:00:

http://www.opb.org/television/programs/ofg/segment/condors-and-lead-bullets/

Clark

Human ingestion of lead particles found in game meat is not as much a problem as reported by the tree hugger groups. I'd rather bite down on a little particle of lead than a chunk of copper(gilding metal, brass, or whatever those homogenous bullets are made of). Just my opinion.

Mobuck said:

Human ingestion of lead particles found in game meat is not as much a problem as reported by the tree hugger groups. I'd rather bite down on a little particle of lead than a chunk of copper(gilding metal, brass, or whatever those homogenous bullets are made of). Just my opinion.

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Yeah, me too. When you get right down to the nitty gritty of it, just how many cases of lead poisoning from lead fragments in game have you actually heard of. I've been hunting game since I was eleven years old and I'm now severt-six. I've probably ingested a few lead particles over all those years. I'm still around and still meaner than strychnine. :lol:
On another note, I did get to the range yesterday and frankly it was a royal disaster. Screwed up and left the tripod for the chronograph sitting on the patio chair along with my gallon of Gatorade. I got to the range at 7AM and was done shooting by a hair after ten AM. It was already 102 at the range and 100 at the house when I got home. Had a nasty touch of heat exhaustion that took a while to get squared away from. I'd planned to reload that brass so I could hit the range again today to at least chronograph the loads and make sure I had the Gatorade. We had some thunderstorms roll through and the range took a hit so will be shut down for a day or two to make repairs. It's a good thing my hunt ain't until next January.
The one good thing is that load purported to do 2900 FPS appears to be safe, at least in that rifle. I'll be out in my shed a little later taking measurements off that brass and then throwing them into the tumbler. Nice thing about that shed is it has A/C. Just have to turn it off when measuring powder. I do that early in the AM these days.
Weird thing about those test loads. Accuracy was some of the worst I've ever seen from any rifle except for the very last load which was the hottest. That one gave a nice even sided triangle about 1.25" to the side. :?: All the other were just random patterns. Now these loads were shot in a rifle that has been sub-MOA with just about everything I've run through it. Even Winchester factory 145 gr. Power Points average .75". Federal 175 gr. RNs run closer to a half inch but do not come anywhere near factory velocity. Bullets were seated as far out as the magazine would allow which usually works great in that rifle. Maybe it just doesn't like Nosler Partitions. damned if I know. Well, I'll give it a serious cleaning session. It used to copper foul badly till I firelapped it and even after that it fouled to some degree. It's always something. :roll:
Paul B.

One thing about this whole issue (lead vs non-lead projectiles) is that saying:

Paul B said:

I've probably ingested a few lead particles over all those years. I'm still around and still meaner than strychnine.

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truly proves nothing. What can't be answered is how healthy of a life you would have if you had never ingested lead. It's similar to the "my grand pappy smoked 2 packs of cigs his whole life and lived to be 84" argument for smoking cigarettes. Let's ignore the tens of thousands of people who have died of lung cancer, emphysema and COPD that is directly attributable to smoking.

When it comes to shooting and what projectile to use, we can ignore the overwhelming evidence that lead causes serious problems in people, that it (lead poisoning) can be difficult to diagnose and that it can take years to build up in one persons body before symptoms show up and continue to shoot lead. Go ahead, it's your body and your choice. Ignore the evidence.

The argument that you would rather bite down on lead than copper is a straw man argument for continuing in your ways. From my research, copper projectiles typically retain 95%+ of their original mass vs. lead which can only retain 50%. You are very unlikely to encounter copper fragments.

It isn't cheap to make the switch to copper but it is safer for me and my family.

Clark

Clark, I'm not sure how to answer this. All I can say issince 1954, with the exception of a four year stint in the military I've worked with lead every year since, I not only have cast my own bullets for personal use but worker for several years for a company in San Francisco casting bullets in a small unventilated 10x10 foot room with several other men. We worked, ate smoked, and drank cold drinks with unwashed hands. By all tokens I should have so much lead in my system that if I fell into a deep lake I should sink to the bottom. With all the fuss and bull crap coming from the ecofreaks I went to a specialist and paid put of pocket to have all the tests done to determine how much lead contamination there might be in my body. It wasn't cheap. The levels in my body were LOWER than what was considered normal for a person my age growing in an era where lead was very abundent from paint, gasoline and God only knows what else. One point that may have made a difference is I've always drank orange juice, sometimes as much as a gallon a day. I absolutely love the stuff. OJ is a chelating agent; that is it helps remove lead and other heavy metals from your system. THe doctor did give me medication to chelate more of what lead was in my system and if it wasn't for a bad knee I could still run halfway up a mountain. There is still lead there but is now a minicule amount. These days when I fire up the casting pot, I have the door to shed wide open and the only window open as well. I don't eat or drink while casting and thoroughly wash my hands.
Yes, lead poisoning does exist but the amount you would ever encounter handloading or from possible fragments in game is so ridiculously low that it would be neglible.
There are people who would stop all hunting if they could. Convince them that bullet fragments will kill them and only allow all copper bullets as California has done makes shooting much more expensive, people practice less and finally say, To hell with it. I quit!" Finally too few hunt so the state says,"You don't hunt anymore. Might as well turn in your guns."
The nice thing is we all have free will. We have choices, regular bullets or monometal.
I use either or depending on the circumstances. Like the late great Elmer Keith said, "I prefer to let every man scratch his own fleas in whatever manner he chooses. :wink: :lol: