44mag reloading question

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Chief_10Beers

Blackhawk
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Mar 15, 2009
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thumbs said:
I will be loading for a red hawk. Do I need to factory crimp for the 44mag?

thanks

I don't know what you mean by Factory Crimp not unless you're talking about using the LEE Factory Crimp Die.

You need to Roll Crimp the shell and if you're going Full House Magnums, you need to apply a Heavy Roll Crimp...............
 

mikld

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Apr 22, 2009
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10Beers be right. Revolvers shooting bullets with a crimp groove or cannalure need a roll crimp. I would recommend you get a plain old roll crimp die and ferget the Lee Factory Crimp Die, it will eventually cause problems...

Basic questions like this are answered in The ABCs of Reloading, and Lyman's 49 Edition Reloading Handbook... 8)
 

Bucks Owin

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Just remember to have cases trimmed to uniform length and that being TOO ham handed with a roll crimp can actually loosen the cases grip on the bullet... :shock:

I've never tried Lee's FCD but I intend to get a round tuit. The improvement in SD/ES with it in Lee's book is eye opening...

Two centavos...
 

Jimbo357mag

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The Lee Factory Crimp Die actually puts a roll crimp on the 44 mag. I have one and use it all the time. It is easy to adjust and separates the bullet seating operation from the crimping. Also the die sizes the case after the bullet has been crimped to make sure the diameter isn't too large. The post sizing can be a problem with large diameter lead bullets but otherwise a pretty good feature to make sure the cartridges chamber ok. :D
 

Bucks Owin

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10X and many thanks DB...Yeah, I tend to be thrifty with the palaver. I do like to throw in a $5 word now and then when I can come up with one.....ie "palaver" :wink:
 

Chuck 100 yd

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Like Jimbo357mag , I like the Lee Factory Crimp dies and use them for all pistol calibers I load and a few rifle calibers to boot.
If you are trying to use a greatly oversize bullet though, the carbide ring will bring that bullet right back down to spec. and it will then most likely be loose in the case.
If you need extra large bullets,don`t use the Lee FCD.
 

WESHOOT2

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Duxbury, Vermont, USA
Most highly recommend all 'revolver' crimping be done with the superior Redding Profile Crimp Die.


It is "superior" due to its fine tolerances, its ability to first perform a gentle 'taper', and finish with as much 'roll' as desired. It does so with great symmetry, enhancing both ballistic uniformity and accuracy.
 
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Forcing a case into a roll crimp die too far will cause the area behind the crimp to actually expand slightly loosening the neck /case tension. The FCD holds this area tight while squeezing the crimp into place.
 

m657

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While I've had outstanding success with the Lee Factory Crimp Die on all my auto loads, to the point no other product has been needed to resolve the issue they solve, I've never discovered a need for such in my revolver loads.

Since I primarily load lead slugs, traditional roll crimp has served perfectly for my needs.

And cannelures were developed for good reason on FMJ style.
 

Rick Courtright

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DixieBoy said:
Bucks - "Palaver" is good for at least $7.50, if not more. Darn fancy word there. :D - DixieBoy

Hi,

Was gonna deduct 50 cents there, DB, cuz he used "ie" (or more properly, i.e., "that is", instead of e.g., "for example.") But then I wasn't sure whether my errant pedantry should create added points or a deduction for Bucks? Ah, what the heck, uncharacteristic brevity on my part oughta cover the four bits... $7.50 it is! ;)

Rick C
 

Rick Courtright

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thumbs said:
I will be loading for a red hawk. Do I need to factory crimp for the 44mag?

Hi,

Two part answer to that:

Part 1: Yes, you do need "A" crimp for that cartridge. How much of one, from "mild to wild" will depend on the load. For example, a light plinking load with a copper plated bullet will require just a little, while a full house hunting load might need quite a bit. If you're not sure how much, try to duplicate what you see on a factory round for a starting point.

Part 2: How you want to do that is up to you. You can do it at least three ways I can think of before the second cup of coffee kicks in. First is to set your seating/crimping die to do it all at once. This has an advantage in that it saves time and a step over the other methods. It has a disadvantage in that it may take some fiddling about to get the seating/crimping actions working together. Maladjusted crimp settings while seating the bullet CAN crush cases, especially if the brass isn't pretty uniform in length.

Or you can use a two step process. Takes longer, results in fewer damaged cases and is easier to set up in most cases. There you screw the crimping adjustment out to where the die's not crimping, and just seat the bullet in the first step, Then go back, screw the seating adjustment out and screw the crimper in and run the shells thru one more time.

The advantage of the second way as far as making better ammo can be offset by having to reset the die over and over. This is where the third method comes in: using a dedicated crimping die, so you seat the bullet with your regular seating/crimping die, but don't use it for crimping. You then do your crimping with an extra crimping die of your choice, set up to do only the crimping job. This way you preserve your adjustments from session to session. The "extra" die can be either a properly adjusted (for the task) extra seating/crimping die from a regular die set, the Lee Factory Crimp Die, or the Redding Profile Die... Any of those three will produce good ammo if you do your part. Personal preference plays a lot into which one you like... for myself, I like the Lee FCD and the only problems I've ever heard of seem to involve at least a degree of operator error. Oversized bullets, whether by accident or design, are probably involved with most of the complaints I've heard. The handgun version's NOT adjustable for that kind of "customization" best I can tell (the rifle version's set up differently and gives you some wiggle room.)

I don't think Weshoot2's really a Redding spokesman, either! He's advocated the Lee die for SOME cartridges, and I find his advice to experiment and test whatever crimping method you use is far more valuable than which die he suggests for a given one... However, he's also probably loaded at least 100 rounds for every one I have, so his preferences are well researched!

Rick C
 

hockeyref

Bearcat
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
4
Here's a question.....

Light loads in 44 mag - say 8.5gr Unique or similar light loading with Bullseye, red dot, or 231.... use a 200 gr cast, 240 gr cast, or 240gr jackets bullet. What crimp are you using? What issue would you expect with the heavy roll crimp from your full house loads...
 

Rick Courtright

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hockeyref said:
Here's a question.....

Light loads in 44 mag - say 8.5gr Unique or similar light loading with Bullseye, red dot, or 231.... use a 200 gr cast, 240 gr cast, or 240gr jackets bullet. What crimp are you using? What issue would you expect with the heavy roll crimp from your full house loads...

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

This is one of those issues where it's YMMV, but for myself, I use what I'd call a "firm" crimp on most of my .44 Mags. I generally load my own cast 240 gr gas checked bullets more than anything else, and load them over a "plinking" charge of Unique, or a "full house" charge of 296. By "firm" I'm comparing them to factory ammo and trying to duplicate that with a Lee Factory Crimp Die, maybe just a "touch" more. They all seem to work fine that way.

Where I've seen trouble with overcrimping, and a lot of loaders have seen the same thing, is with plated bullets. That plating is only a few thousandths thick, and supposedly the excess crimp can peel the plating off and kill accuracy. I've never recovered any to see for sure. But I've got a box of plated bullets here a buddy gave me after he completely gave up on them. With a load of 2400 and a "firm" crimp, a load which works fine with his #429421 Keith style bullets, they'd keyhole and barely stay on paper at 25 yds! In addition to crimp involvement, he may simply have been overdriving them, too. Some mfrs suggest keeping 'em slowed down some (1000 fps or so?) I haven't treated them to a light load of Unique yet so I've probably got something to learn, though the same mfr's bullet in my .357 works well enough with it to kill cans all day...

Rick C
 

98Redline

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I don't tend to run a lot of jacketed bullets through my 44s but even when I do I tend to stick with a nice heavy roll crimp. How heavy is more gauged by the bullet than the particular application. I find that the crimping groove in cast bullets tends to be deeper than the cannelure in jacketed bullets thus a roll crimp setting that works well for my cast loads, tends to over crimp on the jacketed. Once you get used to how a good roll crimp is supposed to look, setting up your dies becomes much easier.

While some may say that a heavy roll crimp is not required for a plinking load, and with that I agree, I find that being consistent with my loading procedure tends to produce better quality ammunition. I don't need to fret whether or not my taper crimp is "enough" for this particular load. If it has a heavy roll crimp the bullet is not going anywhere until the primer goes off.

I will also 2nd Rick's recommendation on doing the crimping and seating in separate steps. By keeping the steps seperate, you don't need to worry about any interactions between them. That being said, if you prefer to do it as a single step, using Rick's procedure can help you set up the seating/crimping die perfectly with one round.
-Back out the die so no seating or crimping action takes place
-Screw in the seater a little at a time until you obtain the desired seating depth.
-Back the seater all the way out.
-Screw in the die a little at a time until the crimp starts to form.
-Continue screwing in until you get the crimp profile you deisre.
-Lock the die down and screw in the seater until it makes contact with the top of the bullet.
Your die is now properly set up and will seat/crimp in one step.
 
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