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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:06 am 
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 36784
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
First off this is NOT political,, NOR should it be considered as such. This is about me, personally, and how I feel about something I've lived my whole life. That,,, and the potential intrusion by a private organization into very personal things of my life.

This is about the latest demand by the BSA upon all registered adult volunteers.


I may be ending a chapter of my life that has been continuous for 50 years now. I have been registered with my BSA Troop for 50 years. First, as a boy,,, then as an adult. Even when I was in the Army,, I was kept on the rolls and visited when on leave.
The direction the BSA has taken in the last several years has bothered me. Back in the 1980's we went all the way to the Supreme Court to keep gays out. We were declared a "private organization" and could have our own membership rules.
Well in 2007,, (I think I recall that as the correct year.) due to "concerns" they BSA National had ALL adults re-register AND had to get a criminal background check. No problem,, except they wanted my SSN. I fought this,, from my Troop, to my Council, to Regional, to National. It's illegal to use the SSN for ID purposes. Finally,, Legal at National called me & said; "Yes, I was correct in that the SSN was not supposed to be used for ID purposes. BUT,, since the BSA is a private organization, they could REQUEST it,, and if I failed to give it,, COULD deny my membership. Using the very same Ruling as used to prevent gays. I was worried about my SSN being in the hands of a 3rd party organization that would be doing these background checks. Can we say' Hacking" ???

Well, a few years back,, BSA voted to allow gay scouts in the ranks. A lot of us were not very happy. Next it was allowing girls in. Again,, many not happy.

NOW,, they just notified me that they want all of us to sign a "Background Check Disclosure and Authorization." They want to "Do random re-checks of backgrounds on adults to protect the children. This would include but not limited to checks into; criminal background, driving background, character, general reputation, personal characteristics, and mode of living." It would be garnered & communicated by a Consumer Reporting Agency to the BSA,,, and/or it's subsidiaries, affiliates, and other related entities, successors, and/or assigns. And they may also get a Consumer Report to be used for employment purposes.

I find all of this offensive, intrusive, and potentially damaging. Heck,,, some folks are calling members of the NRA "terrorists." Who's to stop them from using this data against law abiding individuals? Or,, if they dislike my "mode of living" in ANY form,, they can deny me,, or even worse,, in some states use it as a "red flag" violation.
WAY too many potential bad things could come from this.
Too much is vague & could potentially get into the hands of a third party I may not want to have my information.
I'm not a criminal,,, and have not given any reason for them to do this to me.


So,, after 50 years,, I will likely retire as a registered Scout/Scouter. It is no longer the organization I grew up with, and supported for many years.

The worst part; The ones who will suffer,, are the boys who MIGHT have had excellent opportunities to learn from many good adults who feel the same as I do.


So,, this is NOT political,, but put out for the potential knowledge of the direction a lot of this Country's groups are heading. Sadly,, it used to a prideful thing to say I was an Eagle Scout. Now,, many non BSA folks look at us as a "bad" group.

The Mormon Church has chosen to sever ties with the BSA,, effectively taking about 1/5th of the registered scouts & scouters out of the BSA membership. It was due to the directions that BSA has been going, that didn't match what the Mormon Church believed was their direction. I applaud them & support their decision.

I pray for this nation!

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and a tax is a fine for doing
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:17 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:26 am
Posts: 123
Understand and sympathize with the difficulty of your decisions in this. I have no answer that can only be provided by you. Thank you for the help you have given to young men over the years.

This may sound simplistic, but this could be an opportunity for like minded, decent men of faith to splinter off.

I know this would not be easy, or a quick fix, but our country is full of examples of these types of success stories. Immediately, the old AFL vs the NFL comes to mind.

I have zero doubt that there are more relevant, equivalent success stories.

Best wishes in your decision.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:25 am 
Hunter
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 4009
Location: State College, PA, USA
Wow, just nothing else to say but WOW, the complete turnaround of the BSA. Although I was never a Scout, I knew a lot of friends who were, and my grandson is right now. I blame the liberals and their condemnation of all things in the US that they deem to be bad for out culture. At one time there were many good organizations that taught our children what is right and wrong and how to be a good citizen. But now the liberals say that teaching children how to be good citizens is a bad thing.

Tyrone, it looks like these naysayers have infiltrated the upper rules making echelons of the BSA. Retire and be proud of what you accomplished over the 50 years of being a Boy Scout.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:28 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:40 pm
Posts: 7881
Location: Dallas, TX
I do agree with your decision.

I was in scouts my dad was one of the troop leaders. I made a lot of friends. I don’t like the fact girls are allowed in the Boy Scouts. Primarily because boys aren’t allowed in the Girl Scout program. My daughter is in a Girl Scout program at her school. I’m all for programs that allow girls to become better at something, but only if it’s good for everyone. I can’t see how allowing girls in the scouts is better than just Girl Scouts.

As for background checks....I am in favor of them. If done properly. My daughters school requires background checks for parents who volunteer at the school. I do it because I volunteer in the library and help her teachers on occasion. But the background check is not very thorough. Plus as you say, a third party having your information. That is a whole ‘nother can of worms...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:35 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:11 pm
Posts: 8312
Location: missouri
I can fully understand your position. At times we face circumstances/situations that thoroughly test our integrity and our personal determination of how much we can tolerate in the interest of "not rocking the boat".
I agree with your decision on the grounds you offered. It seems that as a consolation to all the factions, some organizations have forfeited the integrity and/or direction of the original organization.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:37 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 13243
Your social security number is not to be used for identity purposes yet, when I went to the DMV to apply for a real id drivers license they required my SSA number.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:40 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:07 pm
Posts: 586
Good luck with your decision, i was never in the scouts, but always respected it. Unfortunately the world changes, and sometimes not for the better. I have said so many times in the last 40 or more years, that sometimes i feel like a stranger in a strange land. Perhaps you could channel those efforts into extra activity with church youth groups. However you handle it, i wish you the best with it, i am certain that you are not alone in that predicament.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:16 am 
Buckeye

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 1547
Location: Mt. Lebanon, PA USA
I was a cubmaster and scoutmaster for many many years here in western PA. I detest the BSA and their current logic. I will never have anything to do with them again. Well......Bye.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:17 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:30 pm
Posts: 7647
Location: Arizona
Everyone has their proverbial breaking point... The intrusive nature of the organization that you describe would certainly be mine, although I would have dissolved my association when they allowed girls.

I'm curious as to whether they're asking for this, or if it's a requirement for continued association. If it's an option, and you feel strongly enough about your positive influence on some young folks, then refuse to sign. Force their hand. Seems to me the worst thing that could happen is they'd dismiss you, and thus there's absolutely nothing to lose by taking a stand. Make 'em fire ya.

You may get more support than you realize. Sometimes it only takes one or two to stand up to get others off their butts. Just my passing thoughts... ;) I have NO doubt that you'll make the right decisions.

Good luck, Ty.

Regards, Pete

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When an honest man finds he's wrong, he'll either cease being wrong, or he'll cease being honest.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:47 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:01 am
Posts: 17382
Location: Milo Maine
As a LIFE scout I always supported the BSA. Contributed and even participated in Jamborees, Klondike derbies! I no longer have anything to do with the organization.
We were Members of the Daniel Webster Council of Scouts and was a proud group.
Pretty much has fallen apart now due National Council really too bad I'm was Huge advocate for Scouting. Scouting when I was a boy was great and loved it. It's sad
what has happened to scouting. ps

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:03 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:01 am
Posts: 15064
Location: So. Florida
Things change with time. What was once thought to be a healthy American organization has been manipulated by those from within and by those outside into an almost unrecognizable division of what it once was. This can be said about many organizations. Things change and we have to change with them in order to keep our sanity. Move on it that is what feels right.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:46 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:34 pm
Posts: 8959
Location: Georgia
Sorry you're having to make this decision, Ty :( It's almost like cutting loose a friend of 50 years because you just can't tolerate how he is now. I don't envy the position you're in, but I'm sure you'll make the correct decision. What a shame...

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Let's just sit here awhile and see what happens...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:02 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:08 am
Posts: 10960
Location: In the AZ oven (Phoenix basin)
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/021216/10-ways-protect-your-social-security-number.asp

When to Provide Your Social Security Number

Not everyone who requests your SSN actually needs it. Generally
speaking, if an entity reports information about you to the Internal
Revenue Service, you probably have to supply your Social Security
number. This includes your employer, banks/lenders, the U.S. Treasury
for savings bonds, state or welfare departments, state unemployment
insurance departments, and workers’ compensation.

Although other institutions and businesses have the right to ask for
your number, they don’t need it.


Do as you wish, but if it were me, they would be looking at my tail lights. :wink:

:D

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~ If they can get you asking the wrong questions,
..... it doesn't matter what the answer is.
~ Obscurity is the refuge of incompetence.
~ Don't handicap your children by making things too easy.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:03 pm 
Moderator
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 9716
Location: Illinois
Seems this decision was made FOR you not BY you.

For a number of years now I've strived to disassociate myself from people, groups and organizations with values and/or habits I disagree with.

Excellent decision for me. YMMV.

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The philosophy of failure.
The creed of ignorance.
The gospel of envy.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:27 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:01 am
Posts: 1630
Location: Florida
The Boy Scouts Of America ceased to exist when they allowed gays and girls in.


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