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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:57 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 14818
Location: Woodbury, Tn
Yeah, no wonder they were less than enthusiastic about participating! Maybe they will quit before you have to fire them? Good luck!
gramps

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:16 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:11 pm
Posts: 7234
Location: missouri
Well, I'll admit I've pursued this job for at least 2 years and now that I've got it I find out just how devious and inept the previous supervisor really was. Most of the problems can be blamed on inadequate supervision over the previous decade. People just don't want to work any harder than they have to and someone has to follow up to make sure that everyone is following the rules.
These jobs are generally "self administering" meaning the employees get a list of assignments and a due date and the how/when is determined by the employee. Time/mileage is self reported but is checked and approved by me and I've been watching that far more closely than my predecessor which has already turned up some disturbing anomalies. I'm positive that guy was claiming to have done the task(s) I'm doing now w/o leaving his desk.
I think the higher level people suspected some of this as when I was promoted, I had to agree not to conduct a wholesale "house cleaning" program.
The people writing the checks are willing to let some things slide while weeding out the more obvious miscreants. Today I'm off for another 250 mile drive in the country to check up on other work that is supposed to have been completed.
I'm working and getting paid to do a job and I'll darned sure do that job to the best of my abilities which is exactly what I expect from my employees.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:07 am 
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 35697
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
"I'm working and getting paid to do a job and I'll darned sure do that job to the best of my abilities which is exactly what I expect from my employees."

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:15 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:18 am
Posts: 275
Location: outside lansing mi
Never asked a man to do a job that I wouldn’t or couldn’t do my self. Had two workers that thought that they could do as they darn well like. So I made them a bet that they where sure that I would lose. I Win they buy beer for the crew and do as told or get fired on the spot. They win I buy the beer and they Work till they go back to school. It was a very cold and the best tasting beer anyone ever bought me! Both turned around and became great workers and I had them back the next year. One even got me a part time jig as a bouncer got to see so cool bands at the club and just make sure the fire door stayed closed!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:49 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:30 pm
Posts: 7534
Location: Arizona
My career was enjoyable until I ended up with the responsibility of 'managing people'. At that point I determined that I hated my job, but I did my best anyway. Ultimately I wasn't hard enough on people... Didn't use the whip enough. Didn't punish people enough. And they 'retired' me with an impossible relocation requirement, with the option of going back into the field with an unofficial promise to keep me on the road 300+ days a year as a "floating" Field Service Representative.

I took what I could get and bailed out. The VERY next year they had a downsizing, and paid people with my tenure 100K (plus their retirement) to retire.

Hang in there... I understand your frustration, and you have my deepest sympathies.

Regards, Pete

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:09 am 
Hunter

Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:33 pm
Posts: 4404
Location: A long way from heaven and far too close to Chicago
I always thought Dad was being mean when he said the difference between working the cattle and getting the employees to work was the cattle were generally smarter and more co-operative. Now I realize he was being kind.

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I can only please so many people in the course of the day. Keep in mind it's not your day.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 8801
Location: Illinois
You can hold people accountable (punish them in their eyes) and they quit and you look for 2 months to find their replacement and then spend 4 to 6 months training that replacement all while you're doing your job and the job of the person you "punished". What's more, don't you dare give an honest assessment of that former employees lack of work ethic for fear of getting sued .... and losing.

And God forbid that person you "punished" (held accountable) is a different sex or race than yourself. Now you've got a civil rights / sexual harassment federal suit coming your way too.

We having fun yet?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:10 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:01 am
Posts: 2334
Location: Where Sushi Is Called Bait
BearBio wrote:
RonT wrote:
One good thing about being the boss is you can fire the bums and give them a bad reference if other prospective employers call for your input on their performance.


Do that and you WILL be sued!

When I was the boss we used detailed performance reviews, what had to be achieved to fulfill the job description, and a probation period. All that can be avoided if you spend the time in the front end to hire people who have proven they could do the job while with their former employer and carefully checking references and the education level completed on the application. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:00 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 15081
Location: Alaska, Idaho USA
WAYNO wrote:
Times have changed. The only reference you can normally share about a departed employee is, yes, he worked here. HR departments are bound by many legal reasons to not overstep this. Yep, they can be honest and say he was a bum, but the legal costs of proving such a statement can be so overwhelming, companies don't want to take that chance.

Management can be a very tough job. Folks aspire to move up to management, but then profess how much they now hate managing.


Wayno is right, you can't give someone a bad reference without the risk of being sued. What companies have gone to is they say they can't really tell you anything about their work. That alone speaks for itself. Most people have no problem giving a positive reference. IF, it's the truth. NEVER GIVE A NEGATIVE ONE. Law suit time.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:03 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:01 am
Posts: 16063
Location: Milo Maine
Bear Paw Jack wrote:
NEVER GIVE A NEGATIVE ONE. Law suit time.


How would the potential employee ever know? Someone gonna tell him?
Of course not! ps

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:05 pm 
Hunter
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 3129
Location: Orange County,CA
I was the boss of my workgroup and there were many times I felt like giving it up and going back to being one of the "regular" employees. I had a saying that was a modification of the old saying "S*** rolls downhill". In my case, it was, "S*** rolls downhill, bounces when it hits the bottom and lands on my level."

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 8801
Location: Illinois
powder smoke wrote:
Bear Paw Jack wrote:
NEVER GIVE A NEGATIVE ONE. Law suit time.


How would the potential employee ever know? Someone gonna tell him?
Of course not! ps


Anything you say can be used against you.
Yes, someone will tell and usually without a subpoena.

It's not the 1970's any longer. Yes, people talk.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:56 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:01 am
Posts: 8715
Location: Piney Woods of Northwest Florida
WAYNO wrote:
Times have changed. The only reference you can normally share about a departed employee is, yes, he worked here. HR departments are bound by many legal reasons to not overstep this. Yep, they can be honest and say he was a bum, but the legal costs of proving such a statement can be so overwhelming, companies don't want to take that chance.

Management can be a very tough job. Folks aspire to move up to management, but then profess how much they now hate managing.

^^^^^^^^^ This! This is basically the law in Florida (Could also be federal law. I quickly learned it when I moved into my first step of management!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:19 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:11 pm
Posts: 7234
Location: missouri
I was in a "management position" for nearly 30 years but I saw those employees daily and kept an eye on their work. I had employees old enough to be my parents and contract workers as young as my kids. Although some of them pushed the boundaries of what was acceptable and even pushed my buttons to the point that I had to walk away, none were so blatantly out of line as I'm seeing now.
What I'm seeing is misrepresenting the hours worked and miles driven by 50-100% and outright lying about contacts made and fieldwork completed. It's hard to deny having turned in paperwork on a project when the person listed on the form says they've never seen/heard of you. I find it very disturbing that I've been working so diligently over the past 8 years and being shorted on how much I'm allowed to work only to find that those getting all the hours the rules allow have been cheating.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:35 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:20 am
Posts: 259
I've had a number of positions being in charge of people. It's a pain. Then I changed to a job where I had one person to manage....ME! Could'nt have been happier. Did that job for 37 years till retirement. Would never want to be "in charge" again.


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