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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 35486
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
There are snipers with more confirmed kills. There are snipers (now) with longer distance kills. And, confirmed kills were often not easy to record.

But,, none of them have recorded factual events, combined, that can touch Carlos's record.

Mounting a scope on a MaDeuce 50 cal, and making a shot on a VC at 2500 yds,, not once but twice.
Shooting at a "glint," (Carlos's words) only to find he'd shot another sniper through their scope.
He & his spotter,, keeping a battalion of NVA soldiers pinned down, killing many over a few days,, until the weather allowed an artillery strike. No confirmed kills from that mission.

Crawling out in the open, to a home of an enemy general's house, shooting the general, then escaping, from a mission he figured he'd never make it back from. All this well behind "enemy lines."

And as Gunny pointed out,, his actions saving Marines from a burning track vehicle,, effectively ending his sniper career. And establishing the much needed sniper schools along with Col. Land.

To read the details,, get a copy of "White Feather."

BTW; Carlos was submitted for the Congressional Medal Of Honor. Paperwork got lost in a shuffle for years. His friends found out,, and went on a mission, trying to get him the award. Bill Clinton had it downgraded to the Silver Star. Story & pics in the same book.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:23 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:27 am
Posts: 6907
Location: Junction,Tx
contender wrote:
There are snipers with more confirmed kills. There are snipers (now) with longer distance kills. And, confirmed kills were often not easy to record.

But,, none of them have recorded factual events, combined, that can touch Carlos's record.

Mounting a scope on a MaDeuce 50 cal, and making a shot on a VC at 2500 yds,, not once but twice.
Shooting at a "glint," (Carlos's words) only to find he'd shot another sniper through their scope.
He & his spotter,, keeping a battalion of NVA soldiers pinned down, killing many over a few days,, until the weather allowed an artillery strike. No confirmed kills from that mission.

Crawling out in the open, to a home of an enemy general's house, shooting the general, then escaping, from a mission he figured he'd never make it back from. All this well behind "enemy lines."

And as Gunny pointed out,, his actions saving Marines from a burning track vehicle,, effectively ending his sniper career. And establishing the much needed sniper schools along with Col. Land.

To read the details,, get a copy of "White Feather."

BTW; Carlos was submitted for the Congressional Medal Of Honor. Paperwork got lost in a shuffle for years. His friends found out,, and went on a mission, trying to get him the award. Bill Clinton had it downgraded to the Silver Star. Story & pics in the same book.



What he said...so many more elements.

So Mr. "I loathe the military" downgraded it! :roll: :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:35 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 16550
Location: Redlands CA USA
Hi,

Ty, I don't remember if I read this or Carlos talked about it himself in an interview: didn't he grow tramping thru the woods in your general neighborhood? Hunting a lot with his Dad if memory serves.

Rick C

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:32 am 
Bearcat

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:13 am
Posts: 53
Location: South Carolina
Read this in a short biography of Carlos Hathcock where he summed up his experience in Vietnam, I cannot find the primary source, it might have been Silent Warrior.
Hathcock once said that he survived in his work because of an ability to "get in the bubble", to put himself into a state of "utter, complete, absolute concentration", first with his equipment, then his environment, in which every breeze and every leaf meant something, and finally on his quarry. After the war, a friend showed Hathcock a passage written by Ernest Hemingway: "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and like it, never really care for anything else thereafter." He copied Hemingway's words on a piece of paper. "He got that right," Hathcock said, "It was the hunt, not the killing.”


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:40 am 
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 35486
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
My faded memory of Carlos's youth seems to think it was in Virginia. But I do know that after he left the Corps, he did live in eastern NC. And yes,, his skills did come from tramping around in the woods.
ptypegreen,,, you are right. Carlos often spoke of his "bubble" and how he immersed himself in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:06 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 4111
Location: GA
Unless I am mistaken in the linked interview they spoke of him growing up in Arkansas.

Graygun thanks for the link.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:13 pm 
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 35486
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
Arkansas does sound more like it's correct. I DID say my memory was faded about that. :D

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and a tax is a fine for doing
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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:52 pm 
Buckeye
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:04 pm
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Location: Ct., Va., & Vanzant, Mo.
he use to come to our navy rifle matches at dam neck. knew him well. I use to have a gun show table next to him too.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:29 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:28 pm
Posts: 4002
Charles Mawhinney is officially credited as the highest scoring Marine sniper, Adelbert Waldron as the highest overall.

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:26 am 
Bearcat

Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:13 am
Posts: 53
Location: South Carolina
blackhawknj wrote:
Charles Mawhinney is officially credited as the highest scoring Marine sniper, Adelbert Waldron as the highest overall.

Chuck Mawhinney was credited with 103 confirmed, Adelbert Waldron with 109 confirmed, and Chris Kyle with around 160, though the USN will not officially confirm that. It is worth noting that the criteria for "confirmed" has varied over time, country, and / or service. The Soviets have numerous WW2 snipers with hundreds of kills, but they wove propaganda in with history so often it is difficult to know the truth. A Finn, Simo Hayha, is credited with 505 to 542 in about 100 days during the Winter War with the USSR. He preferred iron sights over a scope, he thought that presented a lower profile if / when shot back at. His career ended when he was hit in the face with an explosive Soviet bullet. He died in 2002 at age 96.
None of this detracts from Carlos Hathcock.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:54 am 
Buckeye

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Kentucky
Yes, 93 confirmed. But all, any involved knew that number was much higher, 3 - 4 times higher. Hathcocks confirmed vs. his possibles were offset more than most of the others due to him going out alone so many times. No witnesses, while the others went out with spotters etc. & got more confirmations.
This, plus so many other things that have been mentioned is what got him put in the spotlight.

He was born & raised in Arkansas & was living in Virginia Beach, Va. at the time of his death.


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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:45 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 1822
Location: North Huntingdon Pa.
Pretty interesting article on Simo on Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_Häyhä

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 Post subject: Re: Carlos Hathcock
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:43 am 
Hunter
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:01 am
Posts: 2714
Location: Alabama Gulf Coast
contender wrote:
I have several books on Carlos. I HIGHLY recommend the one done by 2 of his friends called; "White Feather." More factual & very interesting.


+1

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