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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:21 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 4756
Location: utah
Here is a funny story. A good friend I used to work with`s name was "John Law". Prior to me knowing him he was a cop elsewhere. He told me he pulled over some old man and ticketed him. The guy looked at the ticket, cussed him out and told him, "Why, you aint even got the guts ta sign your own name!"


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:14 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:14 pm
Posts: 1010
Location: Oregon
Do not other states besides Oregon allow any person to plead no contest to a violation, write a letter to the judge stating all facts that they want said in court? That statement is read in court while being recorded for the record. Same as appearing.
Did anyone follow what the woman said almost right away. It went something like "I think this does not need to be a ticket, just a warning." That kind of set the stage for her behavior. She could not get what she wanted.
Here's another good one, I worked a big case with this guy. I could write a chapter about it. Officer Richard Little. He signed his reports Little, Dick. I never asked why.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:33 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:01 am
Posts: 1196
Location: Southwest VA USA
When I was totin' a badge, if someone refused to sign a traffic ticket, he or she was informed that their signature was not a guilty plea, but was basically signing your bond, agreeing to pay the ticket or to appear in court. If that person refused again, the same info was repeated. If there was another refusal to sign, the person was advised that they would be arrested, their vehicle would be towed and they would have to post a good bond to be released. Amazingly enough, several folks over the years wound up at the city jail, calling a bondsman and then having to pay the wrecker bill.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:31 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:51 am
Posts: 660
Location: Coleman, tx
I was studying for my drivers license test in Washington state when I noticed a different set of rules than in Texas. It said when a vehicle is stopped in your lane to make a left turn, you are allowed to pass on the right as long as you do not have to leave the pavement. It made no provisions for a fog line. Shortly afterward I was coming home from backpacking. I was on hwy 12 close to its intersection with hwy 5. On the left side of hwy 12 there was a string of gas stations, cafes, and restaurants. A line of cars were stopped to turn into them and third from the rear was a Washington state police car. There was no fog line and enough room for my ford escort to pass safely on the right. I did so at a low rate of speed and saw in my rear view mirror the police car pull out of line and turn on his lights. I stopped and he proceeded to ticket me for passing on the right. He seem very agitated so I did not engage him in any conversation. I chose a trial and sure enough when I checked the driving manual there was even a drawing depicting what I had done and the explanation of how it was legal. My wife was a paralegal at the time and she also pulled up some other law that supported what I had done. Armed with those exhibits I appeared in court. All the other people there that day ask why I was there and after hearing the reason told me I had no chance of winning. When it was my turn the judge said the officer had not shown up and if he did not show or had not presented a statement then he would dismiss. He returned to say he had the officers statement. Of course he read and studied the statement first. One thing I thought was curious was the officer noted I made no verbal communication with him on the matter. The judge ask me if the statement of the officer was correct. I told him it was. He wanted to know why I was there. I showed him the handbook issued to study for their driving test, open and highlighted on the subject. Then I presented the law reference my wife had given me to use. The judge seemed quiet surprised and called a recess. When he returned, he would not dismiss the charges on the evidence of the handbook but used a technicality about some measurement of distance from the centerline of the highway or something to dismiss. He was not about to let me use their own rules to win in court. Anyway, I had to take off work a day and drive all the way back to the county seat to go to court, but at least I didn't have the ticket on my record.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:32 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:01 am
Posts: 9728
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Failure to sign a ticket allows the defense that no ticket was in fact issued or given to the person. In court it is then her word against the officer's. Signing a ticket in merely an acknowledgement that the ticket was received.

Crude behavior is never acceptable, neither to a police officer nor anyone else. She is to be held responsible for her actions.

Bob Wright


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:47 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:09 am
Posts: 8196
Location: The Liberal held left bank of the Mississippi River
The officer's word would prevail. Besides...if you didn't get a ticket, why did you go to court?

_________________
Gun control means you never have to say, "I missed you".
A mind is a terrible thing to waste on a Liberal.
Moto Guzzi-the way the V is meant to be.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:24 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:01 am
Posts: 9728
Location: Memphis, TN USA
Bull Barrel wrote:
The officer's word would prevail. Besides...if you didn't get a ticket, why did you go to court?


A police officer's word carries no more weight in court than does the defendent's. Why would they be in court? Failure to pay a fine or appear in court gets you a summons, post haste. Ignoring traffic tickets can, and does, catch up with a person. Often at the least opportune moment.

I was once supposedly served with some papers (I was not) which I testified that I had not been served. The judge simply asked to see my signature on the papers. There being no signature, case thrown out of court.

Bob Wright


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:11 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:30 pm
Posts: 7487
Location: Arizona
Twice in my lifetime I've asked a cop "... So what happens if I don't sign this thing?". I got two very different answers! lol

Cop #1 (Idaho State Police) - "Well, we already have all your information, so we'll know where to go to serve the arrest warrant if you fail to appear." (This was said with a bit of a chuckle and no perceived animosity. Clearly - The cop did not view my question as an 'escalation'.) I was also NOT an Idaho resident.

Cop #2 (California State Police) - "I can make this a very long day for you." (This was said with NO bit of humor whatsoever. The officer tightened up and put his hand on his sidearm. ) I WAS a California resident.

It should be noted that in both cases I was in a company vehicle on the interstate, and the infraction was for speed. (Tight schedule going from one site to another. I was driving fast but NOT recklessly) In both cases I was polite and completely cooperative with the officer. (Hands on wheel at 10 & 2 with both windows down half way until the officer issued instructions)

In both cases, each officer made it perfectly clear that my signature was a promise to appear, and not an admission of guilt. (Not a receipt for the ticket, per se) I was in the process of signing my tickets (pen in hand with the clip board in my lap) when I asked the questions.

I did not know it at the time, but the ISP officer had knocked 5 mph off the ticket (75 to 70 in a 55), while the CHP officer tacked on an extra 5 mph. (80 from 75 in a 55) These speed adjustments were done prior to my asking my question, since the citations were already filled out by the time I was asked to sign. Both incidents took place a couple months apart not too long before the 'national' 55 mph speed limit was lifted.

So there is an element of chance with interactions with the cops. To my mind, the officers' answers should have been exactly opposite since I was obviously a flight risk for the Idaho cop, whereby the CHP officer knew I lived only 30 minutes from the point of contact. These days I assume the cop is having a bad day, and I keep my mouth shut and my recording device on. The extent of my interaction with cops these days is "Yes", "No", and "Am I being detained?". (They will tell you when you're being arrested!) :lol:

Any lawyer worth his or her salt will advise a client to admit to nothing, say nothing more than is absolutely necessary, and sign the ticket whether you are innocent or not.

_________________
"Even in their least destructive configurations, governing bodies are still blunt-force instruments which are to be used against people against their will. The more power they're allowed to assume, either rightly or wrongly, the more destructive the governing instruments become."

When an honest man finds he's wrong, he'll either cease being wrong, or he'll cease being honest.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:13 pm 
Hawkeye
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 12810
If you're driving along the freeway at 80 MPH and a cop is behind you and clocks you at 80 MPH and stops you and issues a ticket, it's your word against the cops that you were going 80 MPH.

Who's word do you suppose the judge in court is going to take? A police officers word certainly does carry more weight in court. For one thing, being that the defendant is a perfect stranger to the officer, it is assumed that the officer has no reason to lie and is just carrying out his job.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:40 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:09 am
Posts: 8196
Location: The Liberal held left bank of the Mississippi River
Exactly, Cary.
I once got a ticket for crossing the center line. I axed the cop (who was surprised when my helmet came off to see an older guy) where I crossed the center line. He said "on the other side of that tree".
"Do you mean the one blocking the view past the curve?"
"Yes".
I got to court, they didn't call my name. I axed the judge what was going on and he copped an attitude.
He talked to the bailiff and then said to come back next month.
Next month the cop was there. I was called last. The cop told a completely different story. When I objected I was told to shut up or face charges. Then the judge said he trusted the cop's word over mine because the cop is a trained observer.
I started to object again and he said one more word and ai would be spending the night as his guest. With that he suspended sentence for six months if I stayed ticket free but fined me ten bucks.
I went to the clerk to pay and was asked how I did. I told him I won.
He asked how so I told him it took two court dates, the cop had to come in off duty so he got paid, the judge, bailiff and clerk had to be there until 10pm. All the lights were on and it only cost me ten bucks.
The clerk agreed.
So, yes, they DO take the cops word over the defendant.

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Gun control means you never have to say, "I missed you".
A mind is a terrible thing to waste on a Liberal.
Moto Guzzi-the way the V is meant to be.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:53 pm 
Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 3131
Location: ND
Bob,
The officers word certainly does hold more weight in court than the defendant's as the officer is considered an impartial party. Proof of service in most states is a signature by any impartial person serving the paper including a police officer. No provision is made on the papers served in MT or ND the two states I worked in for the person served to even sign.

All local cops in my courtroom had established their own history of credibility. If I knew the police officer didn't stand behind his tickets real well I might dismiss the ticket on an individual basis however.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:44 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:12 pm
Posts: 4087
In this day and age. I would think being on dash and body cam receiving a ticket would mean more than a scribble on a line. Who cares if she signs?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:31 pm 
Hawkeye
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 12810
eveled wrote:
In this day and age. I would think being on dash and body cam receiving a ticket would mean more than a scribble on a line. Who cares if she signs?


If she signs, it means she agrees to show up in court. Simple process, she shows up in court and she pays the fine.

If she doesn't sign, she doesn't agree to show up in court. Then the cop arrests her and brings her in to be booked. She still winds up in court, just a lot more wasted time on the law enforcement side.

People have nothing to gain by saying "I won't sign it". It's just being stupid.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:09 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 14966
Location: Alaska, Idaho USA
Just saw that on tv, she ended up being charged with Felony assault on a police officer and resisting. I'd say she got her priorities out of whack over an $85 ticket.

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"Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical." (Yogi Berra)
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WELFARE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A CAREER OPPORTUNITY
"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." —


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:03 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 12810
Bear Paw Jack wrote:
Just saw that on tv, she ended up being charged with Felony assault on a police officer and resisting. I'd say she got her priorities out of whack over an $85 ticket.


The perils of being stupid.

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