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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:41 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:11 pm
Posts: 6836
Location: missouri
I only carry "bone stock" guns except for sights or grips. I figure at the ranges I may need to use a CCW, I'll forgo the extra little bit of accuracy for reliability and not give some dumb arse lawyer the leverage that a "highly modified killing machine" type of gun might offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:08 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:51 am
Posts: 630
Location: Coleman, tx
At times we just have to let people experience the pitfalls in such endeavors before they understand. We all have areas in our lives like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:48 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 2:01 am
Posts: 3267
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mobuck wrote:
I only carry "bone stock" guns except for sights or grips. I figure at the ranges I may need to use a CCW, I'll forgo the extra little bit of accuracy for reliability and not give some dumb arse lawyer the leverage that a "highly modified killing machine" type of gun might offer.


If you looked at two of my "Chow" 1911s, one would look perfectly stock. Other than the finish and sights you couldn't tell it from an original. The big change on the other is again sights. It has the Smith & Wesson adjustable sights inletted into the top of the slide. Number three is strictly a target gun based on a Caspian frame with the slide from a Colt Gold cut. A very accurate target gun BTW. WE shot that one from a Ramsome rest at 50 yards and the average for the groups was 2". I can't shoot that good. :oops:
Paul B.


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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:48 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 8699
Location: Medford, OR
I've modified some of my pistols. I have a Buckmark .22 I use in Bullseye shooting at my club. It had a 4lbs. + trigger until I did the 'Heggis' flip on the sear spring reducing the pull to 2lbs. I did the same mod on several other Buckmarks on members of my shooting club as well. I had a Ruger SR9 that I replaced the transfer bar with a Ghost 'Rocket' transfer bar to reduce the trigger pull and action. Both helped with precision shooting matches.
I just bought a Ruger model IV 22/345 Lite I will be using for Bullseye practic and intend to install a Volquartsen trigger it to get the pull down to 2lbs which is a lot better for serious target work.

I don't think there's anything wrong or foolish to adapt any firearm to the needs of the shooter. I don't modify anything on my carry pistols, I don't what some judge to make a big deal about that if I ever had to use it for real. Carry guns I have are strictly stock and loaded with stock ammo.

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...extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! ...moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! (Barry Goldwater)

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:16 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2047
Location: Reston VA USA
I once was a considerable collector of Ruger #1s -- @40 at the peak of that madness -- and each of them I hunted with got trigger work so that they would all break crisply @ 3lbs. No surprises. They did not all shoot the lights out but with some stock work many did. The triggers from the factory were well enough made but highly erratic out of the box --the pull weight range was from 5 to 8 lbs -- and they were hardly smooth breaking.

Once you get to na a single gun really well you can greatly enhance your enjoyment and your confidence in clean kills when it counts.

My 'keepres' are all #1s with nearly identical triggers.

My single Ruger wheel gun also was 'tuned' by a master smith and is smooth as butter.

wunbe


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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:55 pm 
Buckeye
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm
Posts: 1906
Location: Tennessee
The problem is to many gun owners "think" they know what they want and how to modify a firearm!
Many will read about a new part to make their gun better.. so they think, "well, I do this and see what happens!" only to discover things don't work as planned.

The difference is knowing exactly what you want and to have the experience to know the outcome before you even take it out of the box!

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:10 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:28 pm
Posts: 3938
Fashions of the times. 40 years ago I was shooting IPSC in a small way, it was "in" and chic to have a modified M1911, squared off trigger guard, polished feed ramp, action job, sights, etc. I was shooting an AMT Hardballer, Pachmayr grips, white outline rear sight the sole modifications. Regularly came in the top and won a couple of matches.
Ed McGivern wrote that his guns were basically stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:17 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:35 pm
Posts: 355
hittman wrote:
Every time a "custom" gun seller says to me "I've added ________" I'm deducting price I'll pay.


Exactly my thought, but they actually want to get every penny back. Sorry, but to me it's still a $500 glock.


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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:21 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 10478
Location: Rugerville, AZ
Better advice is to carry a gun which, if you ever have to draw it, let alone fire it at another person, you may never see again. So carrying a $2000 handgun may not be the best idea. Then again, some would argue "needing" a Maserati to drive to the grocery store? YMMV.

Experience talkin' here. It gets tossed into a drawer or barrel at the evidence room. Your PD is not responsible for scratches, rust, etc.
I see nothing wrong with most of the DEFENSIVE guns on the shelf today. They are decades beyond what was available just a few years ago.
Remember, you carry a gun to save your life and get away - NOT for a gunfight. The jury will decide which door you exit through...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:41 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:17 pm
Posts: 17451
Location: Kentucky
mohavesam wrote:
Better advice is to carry a gun which, if you ever have to draw it, let alone fire it at another person, you may never see again. So carrying a $2000 handgun may not be the best idea.


Some would ask "What's your life worth?" To which I'd say "Well, if you think $2000 is the right amount why not $3000 . . . or $5000 . . . or what?"

When they came out I bought a G26. Seemed like the best thing at the time, and while there have been a bazillion similar guns developed since then I've seen nothing that, to me, makes any of them "better" than the little Glock. I've shot it a lot and IT. GOES. BANG. EVERY. TIME.

I have no idea how I could spend $1000 or more "improving" on it and I fully understand the potential for its loss in the event of a bad situation. If it allowed me to survive, it served the purpose and I can always replace it tomorrow.

Indeed, YMMV.

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:42 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 8699
Location: Medford, OR
I enjoy a firearm that's esthetically pleasing but I want only firearms that are functionally excellent. I have polished the feed ramps on every gun I own. That's not for looks it's to make sure ammo will feed flawlessly. Clean them after every use, keep them lubed as necessary and cycle (remove and replace) the ammo in my carry gun magazines each month. A collector I'm not, guns are for shooting.

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...extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! ...moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! (Barry Goldwater)

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:54 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 6445
Location: Hutchinson, KS USA
The only firearm I've changed was a Chinese SKS. An Acraglass bedding job and some careful, conservative work on the trigger made a big difference. I'm not a good enough shooter to make expensive pistol mods worth while.

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:03 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 8699
Location: Medford, OR
I recently bought a Ruger Model iv 22/45 Lite for bullseye practice. The light weight is good for my artritis. I plan to make two changes, add a compensator as much for balance as to help the light pistol stay on target during fast fire and a Volquartsen (sp) trigger kit. I got used to my Buckmark's two pound trigger and the Ruger sure feels heavy after that. Sure like the quick takedown.

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...extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! ...moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue! (Barry Goldwater)

Paul W.
Sad NRA Life Member


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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:49 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2375
Location: fallon, nv
The best way to improve a gun's accuracy is to take the money you were going to spend on improvements and spend it on ammunition.

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 Post subject: Re: Warped perspective?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:58 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 2:01 am
Posts: 3267
Location: Tucson, AZ
nvbirdman wrote:
The best way to improve a gun's accuracy is to take the money you were going to spend on improvements and spend it on ammunition.


Not necessarily true. I'll grant you the more you shoot, theoretically you should improve but there will be a big difference in your shooting between an untuned 1911 and afull bore accuracy job. My strictly stuck Colt Combat Commander is at best on a good day a 2.5/3" gun from a rest. Decent sights may improve that a bit but not much I'm thinking. On the other hand, I have several 1911's reworked by the late F. Bob Chow, a talented gunsmith who specialized in 1911s and one will do 2.0" at 50 yards using a Ransome rest. Another is easily a 3" gun at that range but it isn't a specialized target gun. I have another he did foe me that shoots about the same, maybe slightly larger groups now since I've had that gun since 1962.
The bad news is I don't really shoot them enough to shoot to their standard which is my bad. So yes, I think certain mods on guns, especially 1911s do make a difference. That 3" at 50 yards gun at first glance look strictly stock except for the beavertail grip safety and ambidextrous safety but one you try the trigger on that gun you'll see where the important work was done. The gun was built to be as totally reliable as any firearm can be while still giving better than decent accuracy.
Paul B.


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