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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:01 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:07 pm
Posts: 16147
Location: Wesley Chapel, Florida
My Mom and my Aunt Dorothy looked so much alike that they could have been twins, But my mom was a couple of years older. I have looked at old Family pictures from my Dad's side of the family and have seen Great Uncles that look just like him.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:07 pm 
Buckeye
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Tennessee
Why is Native American about the only race you need to prove?
It's funny.. you don't see many white people claim to be part Negro...
but I have both in my blood line. Yes, I have brown eyes, dark hair(when younger) and high cheekbones... shoot a longbow and I like watermelon!

Many people in this area has Cherokee blood, it is the heart of the Cherokee Nation.
Red Clay State Historic Park is only a few miles from where I live. Red Clay is where the Trail of Tears really began, for it was at the Red Clay Council Grounds that the Cherokee learned that they had lost their mountains, streams and valleys... forever.

Eternal Flame of the Cherokee Nation
Image

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:24 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:07 pm
Posts: 16147
Location: Wesley Chapel, Florida
The Cherokees were also the First Tribe to have a Written language AND a Dictionary.

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/cherokee.htm

Cherokee syllabary
The Cherokee syllabary was invented by George Guess/Gist, a.k.a. Chief Sequoyah, of the Cherokee, and was developed between 1809 and 1824. At first Sequoyah experimented with a writing system based on logograms, but found this cumbersome and unsuitable for Cherokee. He later developed a syllabary which was originally cursive and hand-written, but it was too difficult and expensive to produce a printed version, so he devised a new version with symbols based on letters from the Latin alphabet and Western numerals.

By 1820 thousands of Cherokees had learnt the syllabary, and by 1830, 90% were literate in their own language. Books, religious texts, almanacs and newspapers were all published using the syllabary, which was widely used for over 100 years.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:48 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:28 pm
Posts: 3828
Yes, no cachet to having German, Irish or Dutch ancestry, and having to prove your ancestry and bloodlines....a little like the Third Reich, no ?
IIRC the Cherokees have the Dawes Rolls to determine membership, if you don't have solid documentation linking you to someone on them...they don't take kindly to poseurs and pretend they ares.
Like Ayn Rand, I am more concerned with an individual's attitude and values than with his ancestry.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:51 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 13936
Location: Greenville, SC: USA
One of my Great Grandmothers was Native American.... technically I am 1/8th... but my DNA will more than likely not show that. Seems like this was discussed a while back and the reason is simple you do not get an even distribution of DNA from each of your parents ... it can vary.

Now for my thoughts... I now on forms when asked my race just say Native American. I'm 100% sure I was born here, that makes me a Native.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:14 am 
Hunter

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 4458
Location: utah
I find it interesting that a 150 years ago being called "a half breed" was a derogatory remark. Now everyone hopes they can find proof they have some Indian blood.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:51 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:56 am
Posts: 1489
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Number9 wrote:
Why is Native American about the only race you need to prove?
It's funny.. you don't see many white people claim to be part Negro...
but I have both in my blood line. Yes, I have brown eyes, dark hair(when younger) and high cheekbones... shoot a longbow and I like watermelon!

Many people in this area has Cherokee blood, it is the heart of the Cherokee Nation.
Red Clay State Historic Park is only a few miles from where I live. Red Clay is where the Trail of Tears really began, for it was at the Red Clay Council Grounds that the Cherokee learned that they had lost their mountains, streams and valleys... forever.


Because tribal affiliation is tied to tribal benefits, dating all the way back to when the Native groups were put onto reservations and promised allotments, supplies, etc based on their names being on government rolls. It also became social standing among Natives themselves because at the turn of the 20th century many white Europeans claimed Native ancestry, most commonly Cherokee when it was convenient for them. So the short answer, Natives refuse to accept anyone claiming Native heritage without documentation because that's how the US government forced them to live and over time it became the way they identified themselves. A claim of Cherokee ancestry between Natives is almost a standing joke because of the numberless amount of Europeans that have claimed it over the years. If you really are interested in learning more Vine Deloria Jr.'s "Custer Died for Your Sins" would give you a Native perspective on the topic.
Anyone can claim Native American heritage if they want, however without any documentation - and especially if you are white, most natives will just laugh at you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:28 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 13936
Location: Greenville, SC: USA
Dern right.... I became aware of what we had done to the Natives when I read Dick Gregory's "No More Lies" it is a hard hitting book that pretty much tells it like it was. First big revelation was how racist Lincoln was... his big plan was to send all black people residing in the U.S. (slave or free) back to Africa.
I recently read a biography of William T. Sherman... his first appointment after graduating West Point was to Florida... the Armies Directive was to exterminate the Seminoles.... not relocate or placate but eliminate them.

As for getting my name on a list for possible benefits.... I have a ingrained belief that having your name on any government list never leads to a good thing. I've never asked for anything from our government other than liberty and freedom and the right to pursue happiness.

Do y'all realize Native Americans did not get the right to vote until after women did? I'm still trying to figure that one out.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:50 pm 
Buckeye
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:21 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Tennessee
ChiefMuzz wrote:
Number9 wrote:
Why is Native American about the only race you need to prove?
It's funny.. you don't see many white people claim to be part Negro...
but I have both in my blood line. Yes, I have brown eyes, dark hair(when younger) and high cheekbones... shoot a longbow and I like watermelon!

Many people in this area has Cherokee blood, it is the heart of the Cherokee Nation.
Red Clay State Historic Park is only a few miles from where I live. Red Clay is where the Trail of Tears really began, for it was at the Red Clay Council Grounds that the Cherokee learned that they had lost their mountains, streams and valleys... forever.


Because tribal affiliation is tied to tribal benefits, dating all the way back to when the Native groups were put onto reservations and promised allotments, supplies, etc based on their names being on government rolls. It also became social standing among Natives themselves because at the turn of the 20th century many white Europeans claimed Native ancestry, most commonly Cherokee when it was convenient for them. So the short answer, Natives refuse to accept anyone claiming Native heritage without documentation because that's how the US government forced them to live and over time it became the way they identified themselves. A claim of Cherokee ancestry between Natives is almost a standing joke because of the numberless amount of Europeans that have claimed it over the years. If you really are interested in learning more Vine Deloria Jr.'s "Custer Died for Your Sins" would give you a Native perspective on the topic.
Anyone can claim Native American heritage if they want, however without any documentation - and especially if you are white, most natives will just laugh at you.


Yes, I know about tribal benefits.. I was just being funny. I still think it's funny many will claim Native American but not Negro. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:53 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:28 pm
Posts: 3828
Lincoln and Sherman were racist in an older sense, and distinct from Alexander Stephens "Cornerstone Speech", but-like George Wallace-they changed their minds. As opposed to Woodrow Wilson.
During the Atlanta Campaign Sherman sent a letter to Stanton in which he said:
"I am no friend of the Negro, but the government's emancipation policies have raised up us a whole host of allies."

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:02 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:03 pm
Posts: 2508
Location: North Colorado
It was 1968 when the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the various states' laws that made it a felony for a Caucasian to be married to an American Indian. The case that made it to the Supreme Court, with a number of other cases from other states added to the Court's decision, was a case in Wyoming.

In that case, a cow, working on a ranch, was sentenced to Wyoming State Prison for being married in the Riverton area to an Indian wife. He did serve two years before release. His attorney was an attorney from Jackson, Wyoming.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:18 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:58 pm
Posts: 4458
Location: utah
Rancher Will, was that lawyer Gerry Spence?


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