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PeterCartwright · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject:

Very interesting discussion. The responses of trained responders is especially thought provoking. My first thought is, how do you secure your gun when you get close enough to render assistance? What if the bad guy is "play'n poss'm"? It would be one thing if you had a partner who could back you up. Otherwise, I think I'd be inclined to remain a safe distance away to make sure the antagonist is through antagonizing while I waited for the arrival of emergency services (whom I would hopefully have immediately summoned). Here's hoping I don't have to experience this!

I keep noticing that the only "up" side to being involved in a shooting is (hopefully) surviving. No small thing, that, to be sure, but it sure would be preferable to be alert enough to avoid as many of these altercations as possible.

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WANT A LCR 22LR · Bearcat Joined: 01 Feb 2010 Posts: 66

Some talking points.

Is the BG required to render aid if he hurts you first and you are unable to get a shot off?

If the Good Guy fires on the BG, the GG won't be able to hear so well making the standard pre CPR tests too dangerous. ( checking for breath sounds ,heart beat )

Since the GG isn't a trained professional, he is _going to be_ all keyed up and unable to calmly assess the situation. Remember, the GG shot because he is _in fear for his life_ and will continue to be in fear for some time afterward. If the fear level was that high, a reasonable person isn't going to run towards the source of the fear.

We've all seen the TV cop footage of where a BG is shot and remains combative. It may take 2 or more people to restrain the BG so would a reasonable person think BG is going to willingly accept contact from the person that just shot them?

Snake45 · Hunter Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 4508 Location: +3948

ArmedinAZ · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject:

All of these thoughts have merit.

Snake, you kinda imply you have a connection to Ayoob, could you ask his advice?
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Snake45 · Hunter Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 4508 Location: +3948

Otis · Bearcat Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 17

Call 911 they will probably tell you to not touch him, They dont want the possability of him disarming you then being a threat to the police or EMS personal. Hold him at gunpoint until the police arrive.

Snake45 · Hunter Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 4508 Location: +3948

Okay, I've left a message for Mas and a link to this thread. He travels a lot so who knows when he'll see it or have time to respond here, but the call is in.

While we're waiting, I should mention that this:

Snake45 · Hunter Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 4508 Location: +3948

Got an answer from Mas. He's on the road and has forgotten his password here, so he couldn't post it himself, but he asked me to post his answer here for him:
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It's standard in law enforcement training for the involved officer not to approach the suspect he or she has been forced to shoot. That approach will be made by responding personnel when they arrive. Reason: the person was shot because his or her actions were extremely dangerous to others. Just because they are "down" does not mean they are "out." Approaching downed bad guy puts good guy too close to defend self and others, and retain weapon, if bad guy is playing possum and now renews assault. "Action beats reaction."

The shooter is probably the only one at the scene with the wherewithal to protect self and others should the threat revive and go active again. If that happens, the rescuer will be so close and hands-on applying first aid that they are unlikely to be able to contain the reviving threat. The greater duty to the public is to keep safe distance and maintain control of threat until responding officers/EMS can secure the wounded individual and begin first aid.

As an aside, I was recently involved in the trial of an armed citizen who was violently attacked by three people and had to shoot two of them. One wounded assailant fled, the other fell at the scene screaming. Shooter unloaded his pistol and secured it some distance away, then applied a tourniquet to the attacker's bleeding leg. Attacker later claimed that the citizen shooter was "torturing" them with the tourniquet. "No good deed goes unpunished."
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ruger_fan · Bearcat Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 48 Location: DFW, TX

Where ever the situation arises for the use of deadly force, Ayoob also puts a high importance on being the first to call 911.

pyth0n · Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject:

First, be the first to call 911. If the aggressor is still capable of a fight, I'd keep my distance but on guard. Let LE & Para Med deal with them. Rendering aid and how much is your choice. Keep in mind blood borne diseases, HIV, Hepatitis etc.

trex1310 · Bearcat Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Posts: 19 Location: Mobile, AL

Put another round in him and then call 911.

Snake45 · Hunter Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 4508 Location: +3948

Bear Paw Jack · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject:

Jurisdictions that I am aware of (I'm not a police officer) are required to cuff the individual prior to anything else, even if shot. That's for their own safety. Most of us don't walk around with cuffs, and I think well advised to stay away from the person that started the whole thing. You are well advised to call 911 and advise, that medical people should also be called. Shows very good intentions and there will be a record that obviously in calling for medical help your intentions were not to kill but to "stop" them from trying to kill you.
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