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jocko Buckeye
Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 1244
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: heat treatment process |
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| stavee wrote: | | I have seen similar types of failures on engine crank shafts. These are preventable by increasing the radius where the pivot and arm meet, thus reducing the stress at that location. Viewing the pictures, it appears that the arm is undercut where it meets the pivot. This would greatly increase the stress at that location. |
My bet is still on bad vendor product, not stress. Just a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) |
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Jax Single-Sixer

Joined: 16 Mar 2008 Posts: 101
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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: pivot pin |
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| revhigh wrote: | | jocko wrote: | | Alittle better heat treatment needed there IMO. |
Can you heat treat MIM parts ???
REV |
I do not know enough about MIM (Metal Injection Molded) to make a call on this, but the hardness of the broken trigger pivot from my LCP is HRC 49. Although not the top, this is in the upper range for hardened tool steel (source efunda.com).
Anyway, I am back in business after installing the replacement part I received from Ruger. I sure hope this is not an inherent problem with the LCP.
-Jax |
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Jax Single-Sixer

Joined: 16 Mar 2008 Posts: 101
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: Re: heat treatment process |
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| jocko wrote: | | stavee wrote: | | I have seen similar types of failures on engine crank shafts. These are preventable by increasing the radius where the pivot and arm meet, thus reducing the stress at that location. Viewing the pictures, it appears that the arm is undercut where it meets the pivot. This would greatly increase the stress at that location. |
My bet is still on bad vendor product, not stress. Just a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) |
My vote is for Stavee on this one. There are stress concentrators (sharp inside corners) at the sources of the breaks shown by both magoo and me.
Here are some close-up views of my broken trigger pivot...
Stress concentrator where blade attaches to drum (The two prominent craters are from the Rockwell hardness tests I performed).
Stress concentrator where pin attaches to blade (the broken piece is set in position to show approximate shape of part before failure).
-Jax |
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Ale-8(1) Hawkeye
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 7957 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Too hard, brittle, can be as bad as not hard enough.
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bairsden Bearcat
Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Add me to the list......I just bought this gun NEW 8/21/08 took it to the range 8/23/08 shot 62 rounds and trigger broke, won't reset, I'm going to send it back to RUGER...........I'm NOT real Happy!! |
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Jax Single-Sixer

Joined: 16 Mar 2008 Posts: 101
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Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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bairsden, bummer. I agree send it back. I fixed mine because I kind of enjoyed the challenge, and wanted it back in operation pronto. Disassembly / reassembly is not trivial.
Assuming your failure is the trigger pivot breaking, it is discouraging to see that this problem still exists, especially with a gun that only fired 62 shots! |
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bairsden Bearcat
Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| Well I fixed it, the takedown pin #30 was to long and pushing aganst the trigger bar #18 and knocking it off the trigger pivot #15, took .050 off the takedown pin #30 and everythings ok now, fired 100rds ok. |
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Jax Single-Sixer

Joined: 16 Mar 2008 Posts: 101
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| bairsden, good job on the troubleshooting. Too bad it was not right from the manufacturer. Congrats on the successful assembly / disassembly. |
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kensteele Bearcat
Joined: 10 Sep 2008 Posts: 60
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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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so i believe i am having this problem as well. pissed me off since i just got my pistol a few weeks ago and when i go shoot it for the first time, only about 30 rds thru it and now it's broken
i'm not an expert so i'm not about to take the pistol apart to discover what the problem is. not only do i not have the time but also i have no idea what to do, what to look for, or what i might do wrong. i'm going to call ruger tomorrow and send the whole pistol back and they can fix it and update whatever bad/broken parts and/or barrel replacement, whatever is needed.
i have 370-44xxx and it was about the 5th magazine and i fired a shot and the trigger did not come forward all the way (it went limp). now the trigger appears to be half-way and when you pull it all the way back, the hammer does not move at all. so i'm not sure if this is the same problem as noted in this thread but racking the slide does not fix the problem and i cannot manually move the trigger all the way forward.
i have other pistols so i won't miss the lcp when i send it back. for the few rounds that i did get to shoot, i'm not impressed with the accuracy and the recoil is awful. every round i shot did feed correctly tho.
so i pretty much knew the harsh recoil was going to happen (it's the primary reason why i sold my nearly new pf9) but at least i thought 380 wouldn't be so bad as 9mm; wrong. i'm thinking i may have to sell this [repaired] pistol as well, i'm not a fan of harsh recoil and so i might keep looking/waiting for other pistols. i really need a pocket pistol tho.
i should point out that when i first loaded the lcp for the first time to take the very first shot, no amount of trigger pull would fire the weapon (make the hammer fall). i'm going to take a wild guess at this statement but what i'm trying to say is when i pulled the trigger all the way to the rear, the sear would not release the hammer. the hammer simply went all the way back and stopped. as i released the trigger, the hammer would slowly come back to position and rest upright. it would never "snap."
i must have repeated this 25 times before it finally released and snapped and then i loaded a live magazine and it fired right away and then after 30 rounds, pistol was dead in the water. so i have a practically brand new pistol that i got from cabelas for $299 that i have to send back and wait to get repaired. guess i'll let you know how it goes. again, i'm not comfortable with self-repair like i would be on my glock or ar-15. this is a ccw weapon and it has to be 100% reliable.
finally, even after a lousy 25 rds, i'm going to have a blister on my trigger finger, just like with the keltec. either i'm going to sell this pistol or i'll keep it and pretty much never shoot it.
another story for another forum but today at the range, my walther pps suffer from the infamous locked slide problem. the slide is frozen to the rear and nothing will release it. it must be sent in for repair as well. ended up with two broken pistols in one range visit. guess i'll have to go back to g23 carry which i typically move to during fall/winter anyway. |
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Magnum Mikie Bearcat
Joined: 04 Aug 2008 Posts: 46
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Just curious, what kind of ammo are you using? _________________ If you can speak, thank a teacher. If you speak English, thank a veteran! |
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kensteele Bearcat
Joined: 10 Sep 2008 Posts: 60
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| using all kinds of ammo, mostly +p. probably using 147gr ammo at the time. it has been stated that ammo type is not the cause of this problem. |
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jocko Buckeye
Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 1244
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: ur right |
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| kensteele wrote: | | using all kinds of ammo, mostly +p. probably using 147gr ammo at the time. it has been stated that ammo type is not the cause of this problem. |
ammo won't cause it ,,,bad made part sure will though. sorry u had an issue with it. seen that with the kt's alot to. I would have thought Ruger would havelearned something from that to. My bet it is a vendor made part--still no excuse though.
ruger will make it right, so don't give up the ship--yet.. |
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Jax Single-Sixer

Joined: 16 Mar 2008 Posts: 101
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kensteele Bearcat
Joined: 10 Sep 2008 Posts: 60
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yes, i called ruger today and they just emailed a ups slip to me. i'll print it out, attach it to package, and send the pistol tomorrow. i'm hoping they'll fix it plus any other issues the lcp has encountered to date. |
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gozinta Bearcat
Joined: 22 Sep 2008 Posts: 1 Location: Central Washington
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Another LCP trigger problem |
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| Jax wrote: | kensteele, sorry about the problem you encountered with your brand new LCP. From your description it sounds like the broken trigger may have been a result of the original problem you outlined... not being able to get the hammer to "snap". Understandably, I suspect you pulled the trigger harder than designed to withstand. It also sounds like the trigger pivot did not break, but perhaps part 18 in picture below popped off of the pin on part 15. I think this would cause the trigger to hang in the middle as you described. If the trigger pivot (part 15) broke, the trigger would likely be free to move the full throw, but with very light spring pressure (from part 26).
Hopefully you sent it back for repair.
-Jax |
Jax, you were right on with troubleshooting kensteele's trigger problem... after 15th round in my brand new LCP serial #370-42XXX the trigger would not return fully forward. After reading your post, I found indeed that the trigger bar had come off the little tit on the trigger pivot. Managed to get it back together without full dis-assembly (I pulled the frame insert up high enough without disconnecting the hammer spring). After 30 more rounds, the hammer now trips only about half the time when pulling the trigger, racking the slide sometimes allows firing a few rounds then the problem recurs. Any ideas? Did I stretch the hammer spring? I talked to Ruger and will send it to them if I have to. The tech rep Susan said there are currently no design improvements for the seemingly common trigger issue.
--gozinta |
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