77/357 w/ .38 specials

I know it'll come up and in some threads already has but from Rugers fb page, here's their stance on shooting .38 specials from the 77/357:

The 77/357 will usually function well when loaded with .38 Special. However, the left over space in the magazine allows .38 Special cartridges room to migrate, occasionally to where the rim of the top round gets caught behind the rim of the round below, causing a "rim lock" jam. The incidence rate of this malfunction is fairly low, and varies by ammunition type. If you want to shoot .38 Special in your 77/357 you are welcome to do so, but you can't blame your gun if it does not function perfectly! The gun was designed to shoot, and will shoot best, with 357 Magnum ammunition.


So the info is out there for all the world to see. Sure as the sun rises though someone will experience the "rimlock" jam and be all upset saying it was a poor design, yada, yadda, yadda... Ye been warned!

It is not a good idea to shoot specials either 44's or 38's in a rifle designed for magnum cartridges anyway because over time it can carbon-up and erode the chamber and make loading and ejection difficult with the magnum cartridges, same as in a revolver, this in addition to the feeding problem. It is wise if you want reduced loads to have them loaded into full size magnum cases. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

Correct! But you know that this will occur. Already seeing many posts from folks saying how .357 is too expensive to shoot and .38's will be better. :roll: It's these types that'll do the whining and complaining not those that actually understand what you mention.

BlkHawk73 said:

Correct! But you know that this will occur. Already seeing many posts from folks saying how .357 is too expensive to shoot and .38's will be better. :roll: It's these types that'll do the whining and complaining not those that actually understand what you mention.

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Got that right. :shock: :shock: :roll:

...Jimbo

Jimbo357mag said:

It is not a good idea to shoot specials either 44's or 38's in a rifle designed for magnum cartridges anyway because over time it can carbon-up and erode the chamber and make loading and ejection difficult with the magnum cartridges, same as in a revolver, this in addition to the feeding problem. It is wise if you want reduced loads to have them loaded into full size magnum cases. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

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You know, for literally decades I have fired thousands upon thousands of .38 and .44 Specials in my Magnum handguns. I defy anyone to find the slightest evidence of hardened carbon rings or chamber erosion in any of them. There is a secret to avoiding such problems. It's called... CLEANING.

"because over time it can carbon-up and erode the chamber"


If one shoots .357s in a .357, wouldn't that just erode the chamber farther down the barrel?

I understand the cleaning issue, but not this erosion point.

Monty

"because over time it can carbon-up and erode the chamber"


If one shoots .357s in a .357, wouldn't that just erode the chamber farther down the barrel?

I understand the cleaning issue, but not this erosion point.

Monty

I believe that if you fire 38 Specials in your 357 Mag, that if this practice is followed on a regular basis, as the gun is handed down in the family generations to your great, great grand son, he might end up finding a little erosion in the chamber.

Montelores said:

"because over time it can carbon-up and erode the chamber"


If one shoots .357s in a .357, wouldn't that just erode the chamber farther down the barrel?

I understand the cleaning issue, but not this erosion point.

Monty

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I am not an expert on this issue but I have done a lot of research. This is what I have found. First of all, erosion and carbon build-up are facts of life with firearms. There is no getting away from either one. The reason you don't see this problem in revolvers very often is that the chambers are easy to clean and most times a little erosion in the chamber from shooting 'specials' isn't going to make any difference. Where you can really see erosion problems is at the forcing cone and cylinder face as well as the barrel throat. (that area before the rifling) When these problems occur it is usually as a result of powder choice, bullet weight and pressure with the 'magnum' cartridges.

In a rifle the chamber there is a little step to prevent chambering cartridges that are too long . The throat area ahead of the chamber commonly has some erosion. The amount of erosion is quite variable depending on cartridge, powder, bullet size and shape, and pressure. Also one of the biggest factors in rifle throat erosion is heat. The hotter the barrel gets the more erosion will occur. When you move the cartridge mouth back, as in shooting specials, the erosion and carbon build-up starts in front of the case in what is now part of the magnum chamber. It may be a small amount of erosion but it is there. In addition that larger chamber diameter will allow the upset of the bullet going into the throat and rifling.

The problem of carbon build-up in the chamber can have the effect of making it hard to chamber or eject a 'magnum' round and can also lead to excessive pressure build-up when the carbon ring prevents the bullet crimp from opening and allowing the bullet to go freely down the barrel. Cleaning a rifle chamber is more difficult than a revolver chamber because of the little step. Extra care should be given to cleaning if you shoot 'specials' in a 'magnum' chambered rifle.

You can choose to ignore these facts but they are there and hopefully you will choose to be aware of them. Low pressure 'special' rounds will probably not show any erosion of the chamber but the carbon build-up will most likely require some extra attention. ...and that's my story and I sticking to it. 8) 8)

ETA: ..and another similar opinion:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/106100-question-38s-thru-my-357-a.html

quote> Yes shooting 38s in 357 Magnum chambers will leave a ring. This is not opinion. This is fact. There are two separate scenarios.

First scenario: shooting mid range 38 target loads. This will leave a ring of lead/powder residue just forward of the case mouth. This residue is easily visible with a bore scope.If left there it will hinder insertion and extraction of 357 Magnum cartridges. The good news is that it is fairly easily cleaned away after each shooting session.

Second scenario: shooting 38 special +P or +P+ ammunition, especially with lightweight projectiles. The heavier charges of hot/fast burning powder that is loaded under lightweight projectiles will cause a ring to erode in the chamber just forward of the case mouth. This erosion is also easily visible with a bore scope. There is no way to clean this away. The damage is cumulative, the more of this ammunition that you shoot, the worse it will get. At some point (many thousands of rounds at least) when a standard 357 Magnum round is fired, it will expand into the ring and extraction will be difficult.

Scenario one is no big deal if you throughly clean your firearm. Scenario two is only an issue if you shoot lots of ammo. <end quote

...jimbo

Thanks for the explanation, Jimbo.

Monty

Handloaders have an easy way around any potential erosion problem by assembling loads approximating .38 Special performance but in .357 Magnum cases.

I've been firing a considerable amount of .38 Special in a .357 TC Handi-rifle without any ill effect although I will be a lot more vigilent about checking for damage and cleaning based upon the good advice in this thread. . But if I do damage the chamber, I'll simply buy a new barrel.

Is it possible for Ruger to make a rotary magazine for .38 Spl. for this rifle? Would that eliminate the dreaded "rim-lock"?

Monty

Assuming the magazine is made like that of the 10/22, it would be quite difficult to get the rim of the last round loaded over the rim of the round before it. Dropping a partially loaded magazine could possibly do it. I'm guessing that .38 Specials, with the exception of the 148 grain wadcutter load, will feed okay from the Ruger 77-357 magazine.

FWIW, I've shot a variety of .44 Specials through my 77/44 without either rim lock or any erosion to the chamber. My preference however is to download .44 magnum cases when I want .44 Special performance.

As I asked in another thread.....

seeker_two said:

If it doesn't feed .38Spl from the mag, will one still be able to single-load it? Or will it have controlled-round feeding ala Mauser?....

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seeker_two said:

As I asked in another thread.....

seeker_two said:

If it doesn't feed .38Spl from the mag, will one still be able to single-load it? Or will it have controlled-round feeding ala Mauser?....

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It will feed 38's from the magazine. There might be some minor problems with rim-lock as described in the other thread.

I don't own a 77/44 or the new 77/357 but I have 2 rotary fed rifles 77/44 and 99/44 and both of those you can single load and I'm sure the others can also be single loaded, in fact they always say the capacity is 4+1. The 77/357 would be a 5+1 rifle. 8) 8)

...Jimbo