RugerForum.com

[X - Man]

When trying to achieve better groups with my 185 Ranch, 1 in 7, I like 68gr and heavier bullets.

[Sig685]

A 1:7 twist will stabilize everything short of a 90gr SMK/JLK/Berger and I never liked the 90gr anyway.

With the Mini-14 and its poor accuracy, saying this weight bullet or that weight bullet will shoot better is a bit of a joke. Just try and stay on paper at 50 yards and you should be content.

X-Man, I must say I you write very funny posts. I really liked your statement "A boat tail may not stabilize as well as a flat bottom bullet, in some barrels, since the flat bottom has more surface area to engage the rifling. Just another variable."

Where did you come up with that? That is just too funny. Have you ever thought of writing for comedy shows?

[mattsbox99]

[Sig685]

Ok, I'll bite. What caliber is the bolt gun with the 1:14 twist that stabilizes the 80 gr bullet? What MV are you getting out of it with an 80gr bullet?

[wetidlerjr]

[mattsbox99]

[Sig685]

You could not fool me, I knew you were trying to trick us. No, they won't keyhole, but they won't properly stabilize either. As you up the velocity, you're overcoming some of the shortcomings of the slow twist rate, but you're also adding to the need for a faster spin due to greater air resistance.

I should think the bullet may settle down some further down range as the spin rate does not decrease anywhere near as much (if at all) as the forward velocity so the bullet actually gets more stable the further it goes.

The problem is that it may have started to precess before it was able to overcome its borderline instability and that cannot be corrected.

For the record I get an MV of 2850 with my 80grainers out of my match AR-15 and my twist rate is 1:7.7; perfectly stable from the muzzle outward.

[mattsbox99]

The 1:12 is a .223 though... still shoots the 77s (80s don't fit) into 3" @ 100 yards.

[wetidlerjr]

[Sig685]

So, is there a reason why you insist on shooting long bullets in slow twists? I would think you would be much happier with something like a 52GR SMK in your 1:14 twist and especially in the 1:12 twist for the .223.

The 77gr is not terribly long but it certain does not stabilize completely in your .223 bolt and you probably push it quite fast. I mean, 3 inches in 100 yards is almost as bad as a Mini-14, but any decent bolt gun should be able to get a group under 1.5 inch and some quite a bit under that.

Or are you out to just prove something?

I wonder how things go when it gets really cold in Montana.

[mattsbox99]

Do you ever get tired of being an ahole? I have yet to see one of your posts that is actually contributing to this board in any way other than degrading to users.

I said it can be done, not that I do it regularly.

[Sig685]

Let me see, the thread here is “mini 14 twist rate.” Mike7mm08 thinks he has a 1:10 twist and wants to confirm because this will eliminate some bullets from being fired in his rifle. He does indeed have a 1:10 (he measured it properly,) but he says he has bullets whose box says to use 1:9 twist.

Wwb replies correctly that a 60grain bullet would be optimum in a 1:10 barrel and goes on to recommend bulk 55gr FMJ as the cheapest plinking bullets. All very correct for an older Mini-14 in .223 Remington.

The next day, you pipe up with “I don't believe the optimum twist theories. I have 1-9 and 1-8 twist ARs and a 1-9 twist Mini 14, they all shoot every 40-80 grain bullet I've loaded very well. I've also got 1-14 and 1-12 twist bolt guns that also shoot the 40-80 grain bullets, there are some 80s that won't shoot as well, like the Hornady A-Max, but the Nosler CC 80s shoot very well. Sierra uses the same J4 jacket but the Noslers are 20% cheaper.”

So, you just said that you shoot 80gr bullets in a 1:9 Mini14 and a 1:8 AR-15, “very well.”

Then you say that you shoot 80gr Custom Competition Noslers out of 1:14 and 1:12 twist bolt guns “very well.” (Your words, not mine.)

The discussion continues on for a bit and your post is ignored until the next day when wwb states he has a hard time with your 12 and 14 twist bolt guns shooting the 80 grain bullets. Another member, Lloyd Smale, states he also thinks that at .223 velocities you would have problems with these bullets and does mention this may work in a 22/250.

My first post on this thread was addressing X-man’s post, I did not even address your claims.

Then you came back with the snippy retort to wwb where you said: “Apparently I don't know how my own guns are shooting, good thing the internet is the solution! How can I ever thank you guys enough!” I noticed that you still refused to say under which conditions you were seeing that, so I posted my question to you: “Ok, I'll bite. What caliber is the bolt gun with the 1:14 twist that stabilizes the 80 gr bullet? What MV are you getting out of it with an 80gr bullet?”

This is when you finally answered that you were using a 220 Swift and here we are discussing .223 Remington. I called you on that and you started changing your tune. All of a sudden, the 1:12 twist that shot the 80grs “very well (your words, not mine; see above,) was not even able to load the 80gr bullets, let alone shoot them. And the 77 grains that could chamber shot pretty badly. My, how the story evolved in a few posts.

I can understand you’re angry at me for exposing your original claims as a hoax, there’s no need to use vulgar language.

[mattsbox99]

You've exposed me! Good sleuthing there tough guy!

[kwg020]

Sig, you appear to be correct. I can only say you have way too much free time on your hands. kwg

[Sig685]

Nah, this stuff is easy and I know my sh*t when it comes to shooting. I can smell hoaxers from a 1000 yards away.