The benefits of a college education

My dad never got past the 8th grade. His boss who was a friend that went all the way through school, high school and several college degrees once told my dad he would never be fired. Why? because my dad covered his rear on many occasions because he didn't know what to do.

When I worked in weather, more than once I'd tell a degreed forecaster he was wrong and that his forecast would be a bust. Most listened. Later on, they transferred our whole weather station from the airport to the local university and hire fresh young meteorologists to replace we non-dree worker bees. More that once I'd tell then the forecast would bust and they's snottily come out with I have a degree what do you know. They hated my grin when their forecast went bust. I only had to put up with them for two years when I became eligible for retirement and believe me, I did not let the door hit me in the rear on my way out. They should have left us at the airport IMHO.
Paul B.

Right or wrong without a degree you can not even apply for lots of jobs. I did some community college but never finished . Worked as a firefighter eventually promoted to captain for 25 years . When I retired I would have need four year degree to apply for my job

I did go to college and could afford it because I worked on construction jobs during the summer months as a common laborer. Hard work at times and well remember the summer heat was not kind at all, but the superintendent told me one day to take his company truck and go get some needed supplies. Did that and upon my return and unloading the truck he came over to me and asked me if I was going to finish my college education.
I told him I had one more year to go and he said that was a good thing for working the rest of your working life as a labor will take years off of your life. Went on to tell me that a college degree gives you opportunities to select the employment you feel good about and you can be selective for whatever employment you want. Having worked on construction jobs for some four years was recruited by a heavy equipment distributor and started out as a Sales /Management Trainee. Spent some 25 years with the firm and ended up as Vice President and General Manager for the firm and then retired. I do not regret my college experience for it was a good thing for me, but the crowds of students we see today demonstrating will definitely have their futures in doubt for very few viable employers would want them on their payroll.

tazbigdog said:

Votech schools are booming right now, because they are training kids for trades. Unions and small shops are snapping them up and giving them a decent wawage.

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I have a Journeyman's card as a Plant Utilities Engineer or Stationary Engineer. Just this week I have had 2 job offers guaranteeing between 120 and 140K. The set of job skills that I have is in demand all over the world and I get frequent offers from many different places.

As far as a vocational technical education goes kids would be smart to take advantage of it. A friend's grandson just got 2nd place in a Statewide competition for HVACR and has several job offers when he graduates next month. I set him up with a toolbox and basic set of tools last year and will add to it for him. Over the last 16 years I have set up many young people in the skilled trades in honor of my son who was a HVACR technician when he was killed by a texting driver.

I am retired and went back to work because I enjoy the job. The youngest man in my department is 55 and the oldest is 73. I told my boss that he should be looking for people to train as replacements. Most kids are not interested in working nights, weekends and holidays though. So us old guys carry the load and always will...

^^^ And they show a happy young father with a fully restored Corvette to say you too can be successful without college.

Where's my 170 HP '78 Corvette?

The "paper" can open doors, "experience" will make up for what the paper didn't give you! Ultimately, it comes down to the individual and their ethics!

My sister and I were the first in our family to graduate from college. Mom and dad paid for all of my sister's schooling, and they paid for my first two years (EE) until I dropped out and enlisted in the USAF (1969). When I got out, I used GI bill money and a 40 hours/week job to pay for my accounting degree. Ended up as a partner in a Big 8 accounting firm.

My 3 kids all have degrees. I paid for my daughter's BBA and MS (mathematics) degrees, and she paid for another masters degree and PhD. She's been a high school principal and is now HR director for a large school district. And she's paying for her daughter's college (a senior in Texas A&M's architecture school, and just enrolled in the master's degree program).

My oldest son, like me, dropped out of college (mechanical engineering major) and enlisted in the Army. He's used Army $$ to get a degree in industrial engineering, and is presently pursuing a master's degree. He's career army (CWO Blackhawk pilot).

I paid for my youngest son bachelors and master's degrees (accounting) - degrees he completed in 4 years (so he saved me money). Like his dad, he's a CPA with PricewaterhouseCoopers, and is 13 years into his career.

None of us has ever borrowed a single dime to pay for our educations. So it can be done. Most of you are proof of it.

The true sadness is the worthless undergraduate and advanced degrees that colleges now offer. The colleges should be forced to guarantee repayment of every student's tuition debt. It's only right and fair: those colleges collected the tuition. If their degrees have no economic value, then the colleges should be forced to repay that tuition. We, the taxpayers, could compel this through the enactment of a law: we could call it the "higher education lemon law."

tazbigdog said:

College back in the 70's and 80's is not what it is now. Yearly tuition was about $10K for a state-run college, but now tuition is $30K more. Kids coming out with a general degree, or English, walking neighbor dogs for pennies after parents spent $120K for their education. What a waste!

College does not prepare you for a job, it only gives you knowledge.

I used to think you needed to have college to get ahead. But being in the position of hiring manager, experience is more important than college. Master's degrees are a waste of money and time.

Votech schools are booming right now, because they are training kids for trades. Unions and small shops are snapping them up and giving them a decent wage.

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What state do you live in?

I went to the State University of NY, graduating with an Engineering degree in 1971. My tuition was $250 a semester. After the first year I realized that I could not survive without having a car so I reduced my course load to the minimum and got a 30 hour a week night job to pay the expenses. College was a distance away and all the lost time taking busses back and forth was actually more wasted time than working. I graduated debt free with a USEFUL degree and had enough money left over for a brand new car.

Knowledge....Pfffft. My part time job prepared me for a life of work. All I "learned" at the university was the knowledge that the liberal professors are a bunch of turds. The other crap was theory that was useless on the job.

I DO say that a college degree is absolutely necessary. What it does is prove to potential employers that you have the intelligence and wherewithal to be a good employee.

My success in life came from being the understudy of an old fart engineer with 40 years on the job. I valued his experience. When I retired I was the old fart and thankfully the several engineers that worked under me valued me as well.

GypsmJim said:

What state do you live in?

I went to the State University of NY, graduating with an Engineering degree in 1971. My tuition was $250 a semester. After the first year I realized that I could not survive without having a car so I reduced my course load to the minimum and got a 30 hour a week night job to pay the expenses. College was a distance away and all the lost time taking busses back and forth was actually more wasted time than working. I graduated debt free with a USEFUL degree and had enough money left over for a brand new car.

Knowledge....Pfffft. My part time job prepared me for a life of work. All I "learned" at the university was the knowledge that the liberal professors are a bunch of turds. The other crap was theory that was useless on the job.

I DO say that a college degree is absolutely necessary. What it does is prove to potential employers that you have the intelligence and wherewithal to be a good employee.

My success in life came from being the understudy of an old fart engineer with 40 years on the job. I valued his experience. When I retired I was the old fart and thankfully the several engineers that worked under me valued me as well.

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Lived in Jersey, and went to Rutgers. In-state tuition started lower than that.

Back when I was young and just out of high school, good-paying jobs were plentiful, and you could carve out a career without a degree.
but--
Nowadays a degree will give you:
- Higher probability of getting an interview
- Higher probability of getting a job-offer following your interview
- Higher probability of keeping your job during a recession or down-sizing
- Higher percentage salary-increases during your career (on average)

Kids nowadays need to consider the above and choose what to do.

Life is full of choices.

I paid my college tuition, books, fees for MYSELF, working and going to school at the same time. I also paid for my own housing, my wife's college tuition, BOTH of our children graduated with zero debt. IF you don't count all these rich a holes and spoiled brats we all have to support thanks to Jackass Joe Biden and the democrat communist party. WTH, just throw a few million on top for some farmer welfare while we are at it.

In the mid 70s, IIRC, the value of a college degree was questioned. Many students, who were actually there to learn, were double majors because they weren't sure of their career in either one. (The other component is experience.) VOTECHS were being advocated as an alternative for a more marketable service oriented career education. I don't know when they started being Associate degree programs.

oldcrab said:

Back when I was young and just out of high school, good-paying jobs were plentiful, and you could carve out a career without a degree.
but--
Nowadays a degree will give you:
- Higher probability of getting an interview
- Higher probability of getting a job-offer following your interview
- Higher probability of keeping your job during a recession or down-sizing
- Higher percentage salary-increases during your career (on average)

Kids nowadays need to consider the above and choose what to do.

Life is full of choices.

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True, but a good work ethic will still be needed (except for Academia!)

"The "paper" can open doors, "experience" will make up for what the paper didn't give you! Ultimately, it comes down to the individual and their ethics!"

So TRUE!!!!

It's not just 4 years (or more) of college.... your degree must be marketable. Not many companies have an "art appreciation" department. It was many years ago, but when I graduated with a B.S. in mechanical engineering, I had 7 job offers. Got laid off once, and it took less than a week to be hired at a competing company.

The value of a college degree has been debated for a long time. In my opinion now that I'm 67, retired and out of the work force. I can look back and say a college degree does help by opening doors. After you walk through that door, you are on your own to prove your worth to the company. College wasn't for me, after one year I realized it just bored the crap out of me. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not an anti-college old fart that hates people getting ahead. In fact, I am just the opposite. Life is hard no matter what path a person decides to take. If you work hard, have a good attitude at work you deserve everything that comes your way. This also includes college.

In my case, I never turned down over-time and never said no to a project that I was asked to do. I always made it happen no matter what. There was not always a thank you when I finished a project but I had the sense of accomplishment to look back on. In some cases that thank you comes through back channels. For instance I had an engineer question my supervisor if I could complete the software installs and training for a department in a different state in such a short time. My supervisor told him that if he told you that he can do it, it will happen. Those are the warm a fuzzies that made me feel good about my job. Sometimes it's just not about money.

BearBiologist said:

True, but a good work ethic will still be needed (except for Academia!)

"The "paper" can open doors, "experience" will make up for what the paper didn't give you! Ultimately, it comes down to the individual and their ethics!"

So TRUE!!!!

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I couldn't agree more about the door opened via a degree. Young folks have to make a choice for sure. A degree is essential in a large company where there are many paths to success. But in small companies touting your credentials will just alienate you. Trust me I have been on both sides as a degree holder and a manager.

In the large company scenario having a degree more "points" that the non degree competition during the pre-screening process.
When I worked at a smaller company eyebrows would be crossed at the mention of a degree. Management imagines arrogance and a strong desire to move up the non-existent ladder over just getting the job done.

So choose your battle, set your sites on a large company with good benefits then get a relevant degree. Show up and be present every day...you will go places, guaranteed! Right now large corporations love MBA's for management candidates. You may not walk in the door as a manager but you will get there. Engineering is a great path as well. As are Human Resources and IT.

Wondering what happens with the expelled hate rally kids' loans? I would guess that their parents probably took on the loans or paid the tuition, simply because if THEY paid it they would probably not have been as active. Are expelled students' credits completely transferable? Are there refunds involved or is it pay as you go with the loan money these days? I went to two, both close enough to home so that housing wasn't involved. One was for a business degree, the other for electronics degrees at separate times. I've been working since I was 12, so no loans were involved.

How does it all work as far as the students that I mentioned?

BearBiologist said:

True, but a good work ethic will still be needed (except for Academia!)

"The "paper" can open doors, "experience" will make up for what the paper didn't give you! Ultimately, it comes down to the individual and their ethics!"

So TRUE!!!!

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Experience can't be gained unless the door gets opened in the first place.

I had a degree and was hired as a junior engineer. At that time some of the "regular" engineers had NO degree and some of the "seniors" had only an associate degree. With my degree I was promoted to senior in 3 years.

About that time, a new VP was hired. He was a PhD. Now things changed. Two of the seniors were demoted to technician and NO ONE with out at least a BS was hired.

At mid life I started my own Engineering business. After the last recession most of my customers bent bankrupt and I had to find a "job". With 40 years experience and only a BS I was put in a senior position. All of my 23 year old coworkers had Masters Degrees.

Yes, times have changed.

My oldest daughter was offered a very good scholarship to SMU that would pay almost 2/3. She and I would still have to pay nearly six digits per full year (two semesters). She got an even better percentage offer from Austin College where my Dad got his BS in math. It was still going to cost about $20K per year. TWU ended up taking her for no cost. There's hardly a degree worth half a million bucks.