The benefits of a college education

BearBiologist said:

True, but a good work ethic will still be needed (except for Academia!)

"The "paper" can open doors, "experience" will make up for what the paper didn't give you! Ultimately, it comes down to the individual and their ethics!"

So TRUE!!!!

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Experience can't be gained unless the door gets opened in the first place.

I had a degree and was hired as a junior engineer. At that time some of the "regular" engineers had NO degree and some of the "seniors" had only an associate degree. With my degree I was promoted to senior in 3 years.

About that time, a new VP was hired. He was a PhD. Now things changed. Two of the seniors were demoted to technician and NO ONE with out at least a BS was hired.

At mid life I started my own Engineering business. After the last recession most of my customers bent bankrupt and I had to find a "job". With 40 years experience and only a BS I was put in a senior position. All of my 23 year old coworkers had Masters Degrees.

Yes, times have changed.

My oldest daughter was offered a very good scholarship to SMU that would pay almost 2/3. She and I would still have to pay nearly six digits per full year (two semesters). She got an even better percentage offer from Austin College where my Dad got his BS in math. It was still going to cost about $20K per year. TWU ended up taking her for no cost. There's hardly a degree worth half a million bucks.

When I worked for the Feds, you had to make a certain score to be eligible as a hire for a new job. Sometimes, you had to make a score at a certain level in six categories. One category often was an advanced degree. If you didn't have one, you still had to make that same basic score to qualify but had to do it using five categories. Not insurmountable but harder. The top ten would be referred to the hiring manager. Veterans got 5 additional points. I sometimes scored 104 or 105 out of 100.

Joined the army at the beginning of my senior year of high school and was in boot camp two weeks after graduation. Did 16 years active duty until Slick Willie gutted the military in the mid 90's. Got into the Air Guard after a 20 month break and did 18 years with them. During my time in the army overseas I took automotive classes and got some ASE certs but couldn't stay in garrison enough to get my degree. I did 24 years in the elevator industry and was able to retire comfortably at 58.

My wife put herself through college by working and eating Ramen Noodles, zero student debt, loved school but quit with an engineering degree around 2013, about a year shy of a PHD because academia was about to drive her nuts (yeah, she's a lot younger than me), and she was in a relatively conservative school. She will tell you most of what they push is liberal BS and very little of what they taught was actually useful in the real world.

A lot of good posts here. What bothers me about the original video is, there's no way these people should have actually gotten through grade school, much less high school or college, to be as dumb as they are.

I happen to have two college degrees.in Engineering. Borrowed some for one, paid for the other as I went. Never used the 2nd. I paid my student loan My wife got her nursing degree and we paid the loans off. I find it ridiculous that people with law, medical and other high paying degrees are going to have their loans paid for by farmers plumbers mechanics and others with every day joe jobs. They don't get the big bucks. Hell AOC is making 175,000 in Congress and wants the gummit to pay her loans off for her

4896worker said:

Right or wrong without a degree you can not even apply for lots of jobs. I did some community college but never finished . Worked as a firefighter eventually promoted to captain for 25 years . When I retired I would have need four year degree to apply for my job

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I worked with an extremely bright and competent woman. She was able to do what most of those in her same job title and higher could not. Often doing her job and others when she covered for those on vacation. She did both jobs, at the same time with high efficiency. The company ignores here abilities because she does not have a college degree and is over 50.

I have a Bachelor's in business and a Master's in Health Care Administration. Most of what I learned both undergraduate and in grad school was pretty useless in the real world. I often tell people that the single skill that has turned out to be most valuable for me was the typing class I had to take in 7th grade.

But going to college, including R.O.T.C. led to what turned out to be a 24 year career in the military as an officer, where I learned how to deal with, and manage people. My second career, in long term health care succeeded only in small part because of my education in health care, and primarily because I had learned how to manage people (and especially how to pick good people for leadership roles). None of this would have been possible without the initial college degree. And to some degree, in the final job which I held for 17 years before fully retiring, as the Vice President for Operations of the long term care facilities in a very large not-for-profit health care corporation, would not have likely come about if I had not had a Master's Degree. This was because my counterparts in the hospital administration part of our company were required to have Master's Degrees, and I needed to be seen as on the same educational level as those folks.

You just have to make sure when kids are applying for the loan, what it is going to look like to pay it back. I have an AS in automotive tech. Paid for it myself as I went to school. My wife has an AS in Nursing. We paid for that as she went. My son was always a miser. He woked at a restaurant in high school and saved all of his pay checks, lived off of the tips. Saved his Christmas money through all the years because HE wanted too, not my wife and I. Graduated last year with a BS in computer tech. Now working for the DOD in their R & D dept. No loans for any of those.

I policed for over 12 years back in the old days. Based on my observations and first hand experience, I can tell ya for sure that modern-day agencies and their insistence that all recruits have a college background has a lot to do with what's gone wrong with law enforcement today......Plus, I've got two kids whom both make 6-figure incomes with nothing but a HS diploma....What I'm getting at here is that courage, common sense, and having the will to work hard ain't got a lot to do with sitting in a class room.

DGW

GasGuzzler said:

My oldest daughter was offered a very good scholarship to SMU that would pay almost 2/3. She and I would still have to pay nearly six digits per full year (two semesters). She got an even better percentage offer from Austin College where my Dad got his BS in math. It was still going to cost about $20K per year. TWU ended up taking her for no cost. There's hardly a degree worth half a million bucks.

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Your comment is particularly true when all three of those colleges likely used the same text books.

"Experience can't be gained unless the door gets opened in the first place."

In the sciences, experience can be gained through summer internships. Tutoring in English and Math can be done to get experience. Private industry can teach basic business skills (I was night manager at a McDonald's). NGO's can also teach skills and give experience. US Fish and Wildlife offered summer internships that guaranteed a job after graduation (don't know if they still di or not!). And, there is always the military.

Point is, if willing, opportunities abound in many, if not most, fields.

My sisters both have/had (one is retired) the type of jobs you are supposed to have a college degree for without a college degree. I have also known people with college degrees that did well. Scarily enough I have also worked with/trained people with college on a construction site teaching them how to do my job. I do believe a college degree can be useful. I also believe it is harder to get your foot in the door in certain industries now than in times past without a degree. The conclusion I came to about this is it all comes down to what you do with it. I have a daughter attending college now. The only thing I tell my kids is that if they are going to go to college make sure whatever they study has a practical application. Don't get a degree in something useless.

BearBiologist said:

"Experience can't be gained unless the door gets opened in the first place."

In the sciences, experience can be gained through summer internships. Tutoring in English and Math can be done to get experience. Private industry can teach basic business skills (I was night manager at a McDonald's). NGO's can also teach skills and give experience. US Fish and Wildlife offered summer internships that guaranteed a job after graduation (don't know if they still di or not!). And, there is always the military.

Point is, if willing, opportunities abound in many, if not most, fields.

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Being an intern, working as a manger in a fast food joint, or being a tudor are certainly ways to gain experience. In my case I did them all but none of those venues did me any good. It was that simple piece of paper that got me hired in the first place, and success in the real world that got me in the door for a truly professional job.

Later in life I came across may military veterans that were hired for management jobs. (My VP Mfg was a war hero) Not being negative about those people in general (my nephew is a master sergeant with 20+ years and he is more than capable), but the ones MY company hired were not up to the job.

My shop supervisor 5 years college. Workorder chainsaw fluding out.

any ruger said:

My shop supervisor 5 years college. Workorder chainsaw fluding out.

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Like the genius who left me a work order to cut 4" pipe into 6' sections but he marked as 6" sections. I called him at home to ask if he wanted 6' instead of 6" and he screamed at me....

Do just what it says!!!

So I took the work order to the big boss on shift and had him notarize it. I cut 2 full 21' pieces of 4" pipe into 6" sections and stacked them in a pyramid on the work bench. When I came into work I was met at the door and he was screaming even louder than when I called him the night before. I showed him the work order and told him that I was so sure he wanted it done the way it was written so I had it notarized.... He looked just like a balloon deflating when I showed him.... The original intent for the cut pipe was to make bollards to keep vehicles off of the sidewalk. He had to order 2 more 21' lengths of pipe and gave the job to another Engineer to complete!

Watertender said:

Like the genius who left me a work order to cut 4" pipe into 6' sections but he marked as 6" sections. I called him at home to ask if he wanted 6' instead of 6" and he screamed at me....

Do just what it says!!!

So I took the work order to the big boss on shift and had him notarize it. I cut 2 full 21' pieces of 4" pipe into 6" sections and stacked them in a pyramid on the work bench. When I came into work I was met at the door and he was screaming even louder than when I called him the night before. I showed him the work order and told him that I was so sure he wanted it done the way it was written so I had it notarized.... He looked just like a balloon deflating when I showed him.... The original intent for the cut pipe was to make bollards to keep vehicles off of the sidewalk. He had to order 2 more 21' lengths of pipe and gave the job to another Engineer to complete!

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I like your style. I once installed a pump with the suction and discharge backwards. Hey, that is exactly the way it was drawn and the smart arsed rookie engineer insisted we install it the way he drew it. The Ops VP left that pump like that for a couple of years until we needed the real estate. The engineer was gone long before the pump.

Jeepnik said:

I like your style. I once installed a pump with the suction and discharge backwards. Hey, that is exactly the way it was drawn and the smart arsed rookie engineer insisted we install it the way he drew it. The Ops VP left that pump like that for a couple of years until we needed the real estate. The engineer was gone long before the pump.

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I found out a long time ago that you give certain people EXACTLY what they ask for. The guy I did it to was the type that bullied everyone below him and buttkissed everyone above him. He was a take the credit and lay the blame type. He finally got himself into a position where he could not blame anyone else for his stupidity and was asked to retire. His crew at the time had a "go away" party that he was not invited to.

The difference when I retired was that my crew threw me a party that is still talked about and they gave me a gift that was so wonderful I almost cried. A Henry Silverboy .22 with my own special serial number and action cover with this written on it. I have been known as Watertender for many years and I take the name proudly. This just makes me want to honor the name even more.

My "piece of paper" college bachelors degree diploma was a non-negotiable prerequisite to becoming a CPA (it was a state law. Today state law mandates a masters degree in accounting). That diploma got me hired as an accountant with Arthur Andersen (which in those days was described as the "Marine Corps of the accounting profession." Andersen went out of the way to hire veterans with accounting degrees.). Training was heavily emphasized - every accountant in our world-wide firm was required to take classes held at our St. Charles, IL campus. Everyone - from newest hire to most senior partner. And every senior manager and partner was obligated - REQUIRED - to teach at least one 40-hour course every three or four years.

Andersen had a saying to reinforce its emphasis on continual learning: "Grandpa could both do AND teach. He only taught Dad to do. Son can do neither." There's much truth in that. And it applies to our family and personal lives as much as our work lives.